> While I think some of the stuff you want to include is good - it looks like
> a smorgasbord approach rather than a comprehensive one.
Well, it was organized that way on purpose.
Im only starting to work now on the specifics; what I posted before was just brainstorming (whatever you think of, write it down whether its good or not) and requesting other peoples brainstorm ideas.
>I do not think some
> of these things will fly together well at all.
Ill let you know when Ive reorganized it. In the meantime, I`d appreciate
whatever other ideas you might have.
Check out my website (http://www.mabinogin.com/Woundpoints.htm) for various
mechanics using WoT/SW rules inplace of D&D. The Armor DR needs to come down
some. Their are a chunk of PrCs & some classes as well. (some good some
bad - I take submissions, what can I say?).
I`ll take a look at it.
Thanks.
> You have too many very large and sweeping changes to take as one post. Why
> not try breaking them into cohesive chunks?
Eventually I will, but as I said, this was just a brainstorm. The first
phase in any project is when I write down everything that I want to change
or every objective that I want met in the changes. (Normally I do the
latter, but when I present it to other people I present the former.)
Also, many people tend to accept changes to a system better if they are
presented with all the changes together. When asked an opinion on specific
changes, they usuaally want some framework in which to think about it, and
more often than not, they use their own campaigns as a base with weird
results.
> Couple of notes: Blood lines might work as Templates - they should not be a
> Stat, unless it is made useful/penalizes all characters.
I`m not really concerned with bloodlines at the moment. But thanks.
- Backgrounds can be chosen based on the Wheel of Time backgrounds,
although
I will probably beaf them up a little to make them worthy of an ECL+1.
Such
backgrounds will not represent coming from particular cultures, but rather
membership in particular organizations (that I just don`t have the time,
>> energy, or inclination to make prestige classes for). )(They are
> effectively
>> single-level classes, but have no requirements.)
>
> This sounds like a squirm to give players lots of skill points without
> experience points. “You belong to the elite warriors of the waste. Add +5 to
> your wilderness lore…what?..No you do not go up a level but your
> effective level is +1”
Okay, Im not sure if what you said above necessarily follows from what I said, so lets try to clarify this.
To belong to the “elite warriors of the waste”, a character would take the
Wasted Warrior background instead of levelling up in his class, because it
has an ECL of +1. Alternatively, if everyone, during character generation
decides to take such a background, then they`ll effectively be a party one
level higher for purposes of determining challenge rating.
A quick example:
So, instead of taking your 2nd level in Fighter, for example, you could
become a 1st level Wasted Warrior Fighter. It would get you one bonus hit
die (all things that have an ECL cost will grant hit dice, because I can`t
find anything that compensates for not having hit dice), 4 skills that will
always be class skills, a +4 bonus to one of those skills, a bonus feat from
a very specific list, and probably one bonus package to balance it all out
(either attack bonus, save bonuses, skill points, Spell Points, or Action
Points).
So, instead of levelling up, we can become a Wasted Warrior and recieve the
following benefits:
- +1d8 hit dice
- stealth, wilderness lore, perception, and ride are all class skills
- a +4 bonus to all wilderness lore skill checks
- Blooded feat (grants +2 initiative and +2 to perception skill checks)
- Special (+1 to all attack rolls)
- Qualifies for the Wasted Warrior prestige class (if such a thing exists)
Alternatively, two characters might decide to belong to the Imperial Heralds
and recieve the following:
Character 1: Character 2:
- +1d8 hit dice - +1d8 hit dice
- Class skills (bluff, diplomacy) - Class skills (bluff, diplomacy)
- Class skills (Gather info, Perform)- Class skills (GatherInfo, Perform)
- +4 bonus to Diplomacy checks - +4 bonus to Perform checks
- Seductive feat - Cosmopolitan feat
(+3 bluff/diplomacy vs females) (class skill [open locks] +2)
- Special (+5 Action Points) - Special (+5 Action Points)
- Membership in the Imperial Heralds - Membership in the Imperial Heralds
As you can see, its a little more than a +5 bonus to Wilderness Lore and cheating the PCs out of a level. The point was to have new ECL effects that are actually balanced based on what youd get if you levelled up.
Im still not happy with it, but thats the general idea. Its easier to implement than writing up whole prestige classes, better balanced, and still perserves the general feel of various organizations. (None of these are necessarily organizations or exact templates/backgrounds that Im going to
use.)
> I am not sure if Defense has a place in BR. It works well in settings that
> use little to no armor. That is not BR. It could be done but why? If you
> wanted to use Damage Reduction for armor instead of AC, it might be worth
> the effort.
The “why” part is the most important aspect of all of this.
The reason is because I want my D&D game to still be a D&D game, but
translating 3E D&D characters into Birthright keeps having ludicrous
results.
The reason Im giving a Defense bonuses to classes isnt that people arent wearing armor, its because people aren`t wearing magical/enchanted armor.
Other settings (such as Wheel of Time and Star Wars) that have replaced AC
armor bonuses with Damage Reduction are also not made to use the D&D Monster
Manual. My goal is to make level-based characters that are roughly equal in
power-base to D&D characters, so that I can run D&D-esque adventures in BR.
This way a high level fighter in this BR campaign will have a moderately
comparable AC to a mid level fighter in a typical D&D campaign who has an
Amulet of Natural Armor, a Shield +1, Full Plate +1, etc. The difference is
that the higher AC is derived from his class abilities and natural Defense
progression rather than all these bizzare magical enchantments and thousnads
of thousands of gold pieces accumulated from god-knows-where and given to
god-knows-who.
Similiar rationalizations exist as the reasons for all my other changes.
The goal is to have 7th level d20-Birthright characters who are roughly
balanced to 7th level 3E characters. Also, since PCs are often fighting
NPCs in my games, I want to have NPCs that are comparable to monsters (in
terms of difficulty or challenge) without giving them gobs of magic items
for the PCs to loot.
My Birthright campaign is fairly monster-heavy. On top of that, I love
using awnshiegh (especially the minor ones), and I love using templates and
ECL stuff for my NPCs and Awnsheighlein. I also dont believe that most peoples character concepts can really be created until around 4th-5th
level, so I want to start character generation there. In D&D your choice of
classes dont matter so much as your choice of Prestige classes and magical items -- I want to change that for my d20 BR game. I still want to use some of the medium and high CR monsters in the Monster Manual. Despite the fact that this is a fairly monster-heavy campaign, and that a frequent theme in these campaigns is war with other realms or invading orogs or whatever, its
also a very magic-light campaign. Wizards, bards, druids, sorcerers, and
clerics (all reduced to a Spellcaster class in my campaign [with specialized
ECL templates]) are heavily retricted compared to their D&D 3E counterparts.
There also are not nearly as many magical items in this campaign.
Since I want the power bases to be roughly similiar, I have to take the
focus off magical items, and power up some of the feats, class abilities,
and template writeups of the various classes.
It should be noted that none of the things Ive suggested in this email has been actually playtested yet, as I dont have a first draft of all these
rules. This thread represents the most comprehensive work done on this
project to date in terms of text, while most of my notes consist of
equations, matrices, and taglines/reminders.
I do not get what you are saying here? They get the extra 10-18 Hit Points
but don`t have any of the negative effects?
Yeah, actually that was exactly what I suggested earlier. Though the idea
has been refined a little since then.
All characters (in a moderately combat-heavy campaign without magic items)
will recieve a number of additional hitpoints (called Wound Points) equal to
half their Constitution (rounded down). This is free and has no drawbacks.
In addition, each time you gain a hit die, you also gain one Wound point.
(Fighters, as a class ability, will also recieve additional Wound points.)
Once your hitpoints are reduced to 0 all damage you take starts going to
Wound damage. Once you have to used up even a single Wound point, you are
considered Fatigued. Use up all your Wound points and you are dead. Wound
points are harder to heal than regular hitpoint damage. (Even by magic, it
takes time and skill.)
>Take a look at the WP/HP rules I
> directed you to earlier. It prevents instant kills - still mimics serious
> damage and such. There are others versions on the net that attempt to port
> WP/VP into fantasy - each takes a slightly different spin. I chose to leave
> all of the weapons alone rather than converting them all to my system but
> you might want to try something a little different.
I dont really want to do anything else with the WP/HP system. Im not
trying to make combat more deadly, as many people attribute to the Critical
Hit element of the VP/WP system, and I dont want to make critical hits more distinct. Its not my objective. My goal was to help compensate for a
character`s lack of magical items in terms of combat power.
My objective is three fold:
- to power up the basic classes or basic characters in a logical
level-based manner that is somewhat believable in a “realistic fantasy”
setting and equivilent in power to a D&D character of the same level (with
magic items and whatnot)
- to take advantage of my favorite elements of 3E and rid elements of 3E
that I dont like (hasnt really been discussed yet in this thread)
- to try to even out the power-up curve in D&D; so that, for example, a
character with four levels in two classes is an equivelent power level to a
character with eight levels in a single class. (Also not really discussed
in this thread.)
I think everyone should have the option to select a feat for adaptative > learning but if you use the character creation system for WoT (mentioned
above) that kinda negates the need to do multiple free skill bonuses.
Yeah, but I havent really decided if Im going to use the character
creation system for Wot. Like I said, I think if I use them, they should be
improved a little and given an ECL. I also think they might be better in a
Birthright setting for representing specific organizations (cause we have so many of those and I think its cool to have rules to distinguish between
them).
But yeah, I agree with your above statement. One of my players, however,
really insists that players should be able to create a background by
choosing at least two class skills, and I generally agree with the
principle. It`s worth a shot. But yeah, the Wheel of Time backgrounds kind
of defeat the necessity of it.
> Maybe more on the rest but I would have to look at it better.
Ditto.
-Lord Rahvin
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