Where would you put an Assassin’s Guild that is to become a long term enemy for the PCs? I would think either Anuire or Brechtur as the only likely places. Maybe El-hadid from Ilien? I toyed with the idea of Tournen, within the capital city Haes. The government within Tuornen is fractured and being surrounded by enemies plus the Sword and Crown adventure taking place there I think it could work. Where else?
Steve
I’d say that the Khinasi should also be able to have a large assassins guild (in addition to the sons of the serpent) - I expect that a Khinasi ruler who avoided a large war which would kill thousands by assassinating his foe would be lauded not praised - the opposite would likely occur in Anuire where noble war is considered something to be proud of.
In Anuire the assassins need a major city (to hide in and earn commissions), Endier is an obvious example - its the centre of a huge trading network and Enderien traders could be expected to turn up anywhere. The alternative would be the City of Anuire itself - it’s huge, full of people with money and likely sees a lot of traffic. Ghoere might also have a guild - although it would likely have an accommodation of sorts with the Baron - unless formed of those he defeated who now seek revenge by undermining his regime…
Anuire lends itself for a more low-profile, despicable sort of organization, whereas one can expect that, in Brechtür, the whole arrangement would generally be a lot more known, and perhaps more accepted.
I like the part of being composed of enemies of the baron. Possibily setting up a place for a Neutral PC Assassin; sort of a meaner/grittier Robin Hood campaign. Maybe PC Assassin’s guild to play the Resistance to Baron Ghore’s Third Reich?
Has anyone tried playing evil PCs within the BRCS? Any luck with it?
Steve
Endier has always confused me a little. The Player’s Secret book talks about organized crime within it but distances itself from the Regent. However, one of the plots involves the heads of the crime family being arrested and forcing the Regent to walk a delicate political line. I don’t quite understand why? I mean if Guilder Kalien replaced the head of the crime family what is the problem? Execute them and be done with it. However, if he didn’t then is he subject to their whims? He doesn’t appear to be the puppet guildmaster type.
Steve
Once your organization gets big enough, you begin to have underlings, especially those who are not direct reports, who get out of line. Kalien might have some minor official who has gone too far in one respect or another. As such, he is responsible, but doesn’t want to advertise the unsavory types who occupy some posts somewhere in the guild organization.
This raises the interesting quandary for hybrid domains. The more kinds of holdings the more likely that you have zealots of one kind or another that offend and disturb members of the organization elsewhere.
Kalien doesn’t want to be blamed for every act of brigandry, espionage, or bribery that happens on the South Coast or the Heartlands, so he wants his crime bosses to keep within certain bounds and maintain a low profile. When someone gets the spotlight turned on them, Kalien is forced to walk that delicate line. He can’t throw the crime boss under the horse cart, or he looses loyalty in a significant portion of the guild sector he controls (perhaps including a minor loss of regency for turning against the crime boss), on the other hand he compromises his espionage and crime organizations if he acknowledges just how much corruption he is responsible for. He wants everyone to think this is one bad apple in the Kalien organization, and to regard the bunch as fresh and wholesome.
Has anyone tried playing evil PCs within the BRCS? Any luck with it?
Steve
I have DMed an evil campaign set in the City of Brechlen. The players were thieves in a small guild looking to expand their opperations. I had a small assassin guild as well. Brechlen is a good city for this type of thing as it has a high population and it is a major sea port in Brechtur and all of Cerilia.
I put an Assassin guild in Endier. It’s the commercial hub - trade routes to everywhere - up and down the river - Personally I had Guilder Kalien with a sinister hand in it - to protect his own interests (and plenty of profits to be had). Obviously he has no traceable ties to it… (The rumours of the Shadowblades persist despite his denials). No NO there is absolutely no such criminal organisation in Endier. There have been no assassinations here - just an unfortunate series of accidents.
If you want a more sinister plot there are a couple of evil figures in the histories that seem to have disapeared - (Diabolyx may be one of them off hand) they were on the side of evil at Diesmar and I couldn’t find dates of death (I haven’t read all the novels though). You can wack an evil guy or two in that dissapeared a few centuries ago in as the sinister puppet masters behind several guilds - once your players start to mess with a few other guilds they might wind up running into a few of his minions and apparently get double teamed by two guilds. (used some high powered vampire powers converted to blood powers - yes the blood of scions is very tasty:D.)
Don’t forget Cariele. In the game I play Mheallie she has a very nice squad of professionals she uses for all sorts of things. It would be highly possible that she, in some other game, set up an independent guild. I could even see a church of Sarimie or Eloele forming such a guild.
The problem with an actual guild of assassins is that you need a large number of assassinations to make such a thing plausible. Most assassins are generally people who spend most of their time as bodyguards or other defenders, once in a great while they act as assassins. In the crime world, such figures can double as muscle and other kinds of force, but actual assassinations are rare. An assassins guild might significantly increase its use by having simple killers for hire as well.
I agree totally - assassins can be used to send a “message” of pure intimidation be it a note left in your PC’s sleeping chamber when they are asleep. A silver arrow engraved with their name on it handed to their son as a present while he is playing in the security of the palace grounds. etc
Or more serious warnings - sapped but not robbed and the PC’s favourite shirt shredded by a very sharp knife. (or the assassins can take a very identifiable weapon and leave it somewhere or in someone causing them no end of trouble) Or the favourite chargers head left in their bed (oldy but a goody). The more subtle the better - one of my favourite TV intimidations involved the bad guy sitting talking to the parent and looking out a window for a few seconds at their children - nothing close to direct was even said - just implied.
If you do this to pc’s they are never intimidated just very P’d off.
However if you do it to the person that they are trying to buy the same “ship” (or whatever) as one of Kalien’s guilders/Lieutenants and they have then have to try and protect the victim - offer them inducements etc you can have a heck of a lot of roleplaying opportunities. They could even try to prove it has something to do with the ongoing negotiations…or got to the authorities in Endier. pfft. 
(or intimidation vs one of the PC’s important Lieutenants or underlings - read vs the vunerable/weak)
At 08:40 AM 11/19/2007, Steve wrote:
>Where would you put an Assassin`s Guild that is to become a long
term enemy for the PCs?
Has anyone tried playing evil PCs within the BRCS? Any luck with it?
There are any number of ways one might want to include such a thing
in BR, so maybe more details would help. Are the PCs going to be the
assassins or are the enemies going to be the assassins? If the
assassin`s guild is to be opponents for the PCs are the PCs going to
be evil? Was there some way you were thinking of implementing that?
As for playing an assassins guild Id suggest that you should
remember the role of a few general things for BR purposes:
The “low magic” nature of the setting. An assassin`s guild should
be more “physical” than is probably the norm in most D&D
settings. Poisons. Traps. Ambush. Betrayal. Old school, real
world murder stuff.
Religion. Many assassination groups in the real world have had
religious or at least fanatical overtones to them. Nothing seems to
quite get the blood pumping or spilling quite like good old fashioned
theology. Sure, gods dont kill people, people kill people, but its
nice to have gods around to justify things.
The political level of play. When we think of “assassination” we
typically go right to the classic examples of such things, but
assassination isn`t really limited to killing heads of state. Any
number of people need killing. In BR terms, a few key assassinations
can fill the role of any number of random events or domain actions
aside from those that are specifically dedicated (and named) after
murder or assassination. A significant assassination or two might
take the role of an Agitate, Contest or even Rule action. Imagine
the role of assassination in Ruling up a holding: key political
opponents must be eliminated in order to establish control. Etc.
Don`t kill off major NPCs. A big problem IMO in the BR domain
rules is the existence (and lack of substantial ruling) of
assassination as a domain action. Certain folks should be exempt
from any domain level assassination effect; killing Archduke
Boeruine, Prince Avan or even Rogr Aglondier by using a domain action
would be inappropriate. Such characters should not be immune to
death or assassination entirely, of course, but their fate should be
decided by adventure level PC to NPC action.
Hope that`s useful,
Gary
At 01:13 PM 11/19/2007, kgauck wrote:
>The problem with an actual guild of assassins is that you need a
>large number of assassinations to make such a thing plausible. Most
>assassins are generally people who spend most of their time as
>bodyguards or other defenders, once in a great while they act as
>assassins. In the crime world, such figures can double as muscle and
>other kinds of force, but actual assassinations are rare. An
>assassins guild might significantly increase its use by having
>simple killers for hire as well.
In a fantasy setting there are lots of people who need killing, so we
can ratchet back the plausibility factor a little. For
verisimilitude, what we might call an “assassin`s guild” in a RPG
should probably mimic a real world criminal enforcers/protection
racket. The Hashashiyyin, of course, are the sort of proto-typical
example of how one might implement such an organization. At least,
the legendary aspects of that group make good sense for a fantasy organization.
If one were to play AS the assassins then it would make sense for not
every mission to be an actual killing since that would both A) lose
plausibility and B) get boring after a while, so other missions might
be equally apt for such a campaign. Consider the scene in The
Godfather when Mr. Woltz wakes up with his prize horse`s head under
the covers with him. The adventure inspired by that event has at
least three major “scenes” off the top of my head, but might also fit
into the domain level of play as part of one of the domain actions.
Gary
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> Gman wrote:
> I agree totally - assassins can be used to send a “message” of pure intimidation be it a note left in your PC`s sleeping chamber when they are asleep. A silver arrow engraved with their name on it handed to their son as a present while he is playing in the security of the palace grounds. etc
Or more serious warnings - sapped but not robbed and the PC`s favourite shirt shredded by a very sharp knife. (or the assassins can take a very identifiable weapon and leave it somewhere or in someone causing them no end of trouble) Or the favourite chargers head left in their bed (oldy but a goody). The more subtle the better - one of my favourite TV intimidations involved the bad guy sitting talking to the parent and looking out a window for a few seconds at their children - nothing close to direct was even said - just implied…
>
Or the classic - a warm bread or some still warm rolls besides the bed
of the target when he wakes up with a warning note
The Dragon Magazine that had the article about the thiefs guild in
Brechtür had also suggestions for prices for actions. I?m still moving
some of my D&D stuff in boxes around in the basement so I don?t have the
magazine right now but as far as I remember there were prices that
became drastically higher depending on status of target (someone, a
lieutenant, a regent) and what was to do (some intimidating to convince
someone, break some bones, real assasination).
If you are interested in a very cool concept of assassins, find the old 2nd ed sourcebook for “the Crusades”. It explains the very relavent middle eastern phylosophy on assassins. Religious fevor for assassination of the crusaders. I think it fits very well into this world.
Every time I suggest guilds to my players they want assassin guilds. I’m not against the idea but I do get a little frustrated by it being the only guild people want to run (because it’s soooo coool). So when I allow those guilds they don’t generate “money” like normal guilds. After all it’s not a steady flow of income it’s contracts, and you have to be successful to collect on a contract.
And then there’s the issue that in one little dukedom there isn’t THAT much need for a team of assassins for regular work. It works better as one guild that works in all of Anuire better than a bunch of small guilds. Perhaps with no real buildings or centers of operation so they can’t be tracked.
Then there’s the issue of killing of major NPCs heads of state. I don’t mean to say it isn’t possible but if it’s made too easy it starts to de-stablize the story you are trying to tell.
I think there’s much more political pressure that can be put on a kingdom by denying imports than allows threatening to “remove people”.
those are just my random thoughts when dealing with these guilds.
At 12:45 PM 11/28/2007, Sinister wrote:
>Every time I suggest guilds to my players they want assassin
>guilds. I`m not against the idea but I do get a little frustrated
by it being the only guild people want to run (because it
s soooo >coool). So when I allow those guilds they dont generate “money”
like normal guilds. After all its not a steady flow of income its
contracts, and you have to be successful to collect on a contract.
From a BR domain level POV, I dont think an assassins guild is
necessarily a guild holding. It could certainly be portrayed that
way, but a group of assassins could easily take the form of provinces
and any of the three population based holdings. Law and guild
holdings are obvious, but assassination organizations from history
and fantasy fiction often have a very particular religious aspect to
them as well, so temple holdings are perfectly apt. Such holdings
would be “covert” in several cases, but they could take several forms.
And then there
s the issue that in one little dukedom there isnt
THAT much need for a team of assassins for regular work. It works
better as one guild that works in all of Anuire better than a bunch
of small guilds. Perhaps with no real buildings or centers of
operation so they can`t be tracked.
There are still lots of people who need killing in such a system, and
though it can stretch verisimilitude if the body count gets too high
such a concept doesn`t differ too much from the standard D&D
adventure (in which the body count is assumed to be ridiculously high
to begin with…) Street level community leaders and their cronies,
gang captains, those who seek to organize labor, low-level
bureaucrats who “know too much” etc. are all good targets for such a campaign.
Then there
s the issue of killing of major NPCs heads of state. I >dont mean to say it isnt possible but if its made too easy it
starts to de-stablize the story you are trying to tell.
In my experience you have to take this entirely off the table–at
least, you have to remove the domain action equivalent of this
action. Assassination as a domain action (with only a die roll that
determines success/failure) should be reserved for what we might
classify as a “hit man” type murder rather than the political
assassination of the head of state. They might still be “political
killings” in the sense that they occur for some sort of political
purpose, but certain characters should be immune from the kind of
“delegation” that occurs when one switches from the adventure level
of play to the domain level.
I think there`s much more political pressure that can be put on a
>kingdom by denying imports than allows threatening to “remove people”.
Absolutely.
Gary
This is the kind of thing where I apply the “would you like it if they did it to you” test.
Players accept contest actions, agitate actions, and the rest, but the idea that a PC could be taken out by a single espionage action is upsetting. So, because players don’t want it done to them, they can’t do it back. Major NPC’s can only be gotten to in the same way PC’s can be gotten to.
I think the effect of a trade embargo is near zero. It has little, if any, effect in a largely globalized modern economy. It would have no effect on economies that are almost entirely self sufficient. Plus, smuggling is so much more normal and easy to do in an underpoliced medieval society.