Birthright "demihuman" Races:

Seeing as the Flavour vs. Mechanics thread I opened has gotten into the subject of dwarven DR against bludgeoning weapons, I came up with the following thing to bring up, so as to lift some weight off its shoulders:

It has been discussed in the past whether the new racial traits given to the playable humanoid races of Birthright should reflect more of the old ones and raise their level adjustment accordingly, from an effective level adjustment of +0 to whatever is dimmed most appropriate.

Whoever wants to make any comment about the various racial traits, I suggest they do it quickly, so that the poor people who make all this work for us do not have to fend us off when the update to the BRCS-PT and the remake of the Atlas of Cerilia comes up…

The start has been made with the Dwarven DR. What next?

how about the shadow abilities of the halflings,even though i never play a halfling myself i think that in birthright at least they have some very intriguing abilities :slight_smile:

RaspK_FOG writes:

> The start has been made with the Dwarven DR. What next?

How about views on Sidhelian immortality?

(It might also be prudent to discuss the human racial variations under this

aegis…)

Gary

Seeing you are going to be dicussing the racial traits, you may as well dicuss the latest version of them…

Halflings

Racial Abilities: Cerilian halflings have the following racial traits:
• +2 Dexterity, -2 Strength.
• Small-sized (3’6” to 4’ tall), base speed of 20 feet. As Small creatures, halflings gain a +1 size bonus to Armour Class, a +1 size bonus on attack rolls, and a +4 size bonus on Hide checks, but they must use smaller weapons than humans use, and their lifting and carrying capacities are three-quarters those of Medium-size characters.
• +2 racial bonus on Listen, Climb, Jump, and Move Silently checks.
• +2 morale bonus on saving throws vs. fear.
• +1 racial attack bonus with thrown weapons and slings.
• Shadow Sense: Halflings possess the ability to attune their vision to the shadow world. This provides them with a limited ability to sense undead, necromantic magic, powerful evil, and areas where the veil between Aebrynis and the Shadow World is thin. Exceptional halflings can take advantage of this ability and learn to enter and exit the shadow world [refer to the Shadow Walker, Shadow Guide, and Improved Shadow Guide Feats].
• [Cerilian halflings do not gain the +1 racial bonus to all saving throw gained by Player’s Handbook Halflings.]
• Automatic Language: Any, based on region. Bonus Languages: Any regional human dialect (Anuirean, Basarji, Low Brecht, High Brecht, Rjuven, or Vos).
• Favoured Class: Rogue.

Half-elves

Racial Abilities: Cerilian half-elves have the following racial traits:
• +2 Dexterity, -2 Constitution.
• Medium-size, base speed of 30 feet.
• Immunity to magic sleep spells and a +2 racial saving throw bonus against enchantment spells or effects.
• Low-light Vision: A half-elf can see twice as far as a human in starlight, torchlight, or other conditions of poor illumination.
• +2 racial saving throw bonus against disease and aging attacks.
• +1 racial bonus on Listen, Search, and Spot checks.
• Infamous reputation: Elves are infamous for pursuing campaigns against entire races, including gnolls, goblins, and even humans in many regions (including most of Anuire). Half-elves receive a -2 racial penalty to Diplomacy, a -2 racial penalty to Gather Information, and a +2 racial bonus to Intimidate in areas where they have an infamous reputation.
• Elven Blood: A half-elf can be considered an elf for many purposes, including the casting of true magic.
• [Cerilian half-elves do not gain the +2 bonus to Diplomacy and Gather Information received by Player’s Handbook half-elves.]
• Automatic Language: Sidhelien or the language of their human parent. Bonus Languages: Sidhelien, or any regional human dialect (Anuirean, Basarji, Low Brecht, High Brecht, Rjuven, or Vos).
• Favored Class: Any.

Elves

Racial Abilities: Cerilian elves have the following racial traits:
• +2 Dexterity, +2 Charisma, -2 Strength, -2 Constitution.
• Medium-size (5’6” to 6” tall); base speed of 30 feet.
• Immunity to magic sleep spells and a +2 racial saving throw bonus against enchantment effects.
• Low-light Vision: An elf can see twice as far as a human in starlight, torchlight, or other conditions of poor illumination.
• +2 racial bonus on Listen, Search, and Spot checks. [Cerilian elves do not gain the automatic search check within 5’ that standard Player’s Handbook elves receive.]
• Infamous reputation: Elves are infamous for pursuing campaigns against entire races, including gnolls, goblins, and even humans in many regions (including most of Anuire). Elves receive a -4 racial penalty to Diplomacy, a -4 racial penalty to Gather Information, and a +4 racial bonus to Intimidate in areas where they have an infamous reputation.
• Weapon Proficiency: Cerilian Elves receive Marital Weapon Proficiency with longsword, shortbow, and longbow.
• Timeless: Gifted with near immortality, elves do not suffer the ravages of time and are thus immune to aging attacks and normal (but not supernatural) disease. An adult elf’s age has no effect on her physical or mental ability scores. Elves do not need sleep, but they can become physically exhausted and must rest quietly for about as long as a human needs to sleep.
• Nature Stride: Elves may move through natural thorns, overgrown areas, heavy snow, soft sand, a treacherous mountain or similar natural terrain at their normal movement rate and without suffering damage or penalty.
• Alignment Restriction: Unpredictable and fey, Cerilian elves must follow a non-lawful alignment.
• Automatic Language: Sidhelien. Bonus Languages: Any.
• Favored Class: Sorcerer or Wizard.

Dwarves

Racial Abilities: Cerilian dwarves have the following racial traits:
• +2 Constitution, -2 Dexterity.
• Medium-size (4’ to 4’6” tall); base speed of 20 feet. However, dwarves can move this speed even when wearing medium or heavy armor or when carrying a medium or heavy load.
• Darkvision: Dwaves can see in the dark up to 60 feet. Although they can function without light, Cerilian dwarves prefer illumination, and require it to perform most fine tasks.
• Stonecunning: +2 racial bonus to notice unusual stonework; automatically attempt to search when within 10 feet of unusual stonework, trapfinding (as rogue) for stonework traps only. A dwarf can also sense their approximate depth underground.
• Stability: Dwarves gains a +4 bonus on ability checks to resist bull rush and trip when standing on firm ground.
• +2 racial bonus on saves vs. poison, spells, and spell-like effects.
• +2 dodge bonus to AC against orogs and ogres.
• +2 racial bonus to appraise and craft checks related to stone and metal objects.
• Increased Density: A dwarf’s dense body provides DR 1/slashing. Dwaves suffer a -4 penalty to swim and tumble checks.
Now changed to DR 1+Con modifier/slashing.
• Automatic Language: Karamhul. Bonus Languages: Sidhelien, Orog, Ogrish, or any regional human dialect (Anuirean, Basarji, Low Brecht, High Brecht, Rjuven, or Vos).
• Favored Class: Fighter.

Humans

Racial Abilities: Cerilian humans have the following racial traits:
• No racial ability adjustments.
• Medium-size; base speed of 30 feet.
• Regional background feat. At first level, human characters receive a bonus feat selected from a list of appropriate background feats that represent the common sorts of talents people from the character’s regional background learn.
• Regional background skill and bonus skill points. Each regional area has an associated list of four skills commonly acquired by people from that regional background. Human characters receive 4 bonus skill points at first level, and an additional 1 bonus skill point at each subsequent level. These bonus skill points can only be spent on the character’s regional background skills, but these skills are always considered class skills when spending these bonus skill points.
• Bonus Languages: Any regional human dialect (Anuirean, Basarji, Low Brecht, High Brecht, Rjuven, or Vos).
• Favored Class: Any (highest level class is favored).

Anuirean
Anuirean cultural traits: The Anuireans are a stubborn, proud, and warlike people who respect social order and take great pains to maintain a demeanor appropriate to their rank and duties. Reserved and formal, Anuireans are sensitive to even slight changes in body language and mannerisms. Furthermore, the dealings and alliances of noble families are favored topics of continuous discussion throughout Anuirean lands.
Background feats: Armor Proficiency (Any), Iron Will, Mounted Combat, Negotiator, Persuasive.
Background skills: Bluff, Diplomacy, Sense Motive, Knowledge (Nobility).
Automatic Language: Anuirean.

Brecht
Brecht cultural traits: The Brecht society revolves around wealth and the sea. The Brecht believe in free enterprise, sharp wits, and nimble fingers. The Brecht are a fiery and quick-witted people and often act before others have had time to consider a matter thoroughly.
Background feats: Acrobatic, Agile, Deft Hands, Negotiator, Nimble Fingers.
Background skills: Balance, Craft (Any one), Diplomacy, Profession (Any one), Sleight of Hand.
Automatic Language: Low Brecht.

Khinasi
Khinasi cultural traits: The Khinasi people are well-educated traders and merchants that know that an individual’s decorum, hospitality, and conduct are far more important than gross wealth. Unlike other cultures, the Khinasi have no fear of magic; to them it is considered the noblest of callings.
Background feats: Deceitful, Diligent, Magical Aptitude, Mounted Combat, Skill Focus.
Background skills: Diplomacy, Knowledge (Any), Ride, Spellcraft.
Automatic Language: Basarji.

Rjuirk
Rjurik cultural traits: The Rjurik are a wild and hardy people. They are taught from an early age a deep reverence and respect for Cerilia’s wilds and are notable foresters.
Background feats: Alertness, Endurance, Self Sufficient, Stealthy, Track.
Background skills: Hide, Move Silently, Spot, Survival.
Automatic Language: Rjuven

Vos
Vos cultural traits: The Vos are a strong and warlike people with a rigid code of face and honor. The Vos know what it means to fight for survival – both against their foes, and the bitter cold of their homeland.
Background feats: Athletic, Endurance, Great Fortitude, Self Sufficient, Toughness.
Background skills: Handle Animal, Intimidate, Spot, Survival.
Automatic Language: Vos.

In general it looks good, I would add to the background feats skill focus (any background skill) and 1 domain level feat related to each cultures specialties, such as conqueror for Vos or master merchant for Brecht.

The dwarven DR was supposed to 1+Con modifer/slashing or piercing not just slashing.

The human regional background skills were supposed to always be considered class skills, not just at character creation. {The trade off for forcing them to use their human bonus feat on a regional feat}.

The posted (other thread) elven racial nature affinity was also going to be included as a variant for elves and half-elves.

Why do Half-elves and Elves get a Diplomacy (and Gather information) PENALTY??!!!

Elves and Half-Elves are charismatic creatures, a bonus would make more sense…

Overall a nice description.

Requiring “background” skills and feats for a human is IMO a disadvantage, no advantage. This restricts the only “bonus”, a human has. Well, the human cultures are more balanced with each other now, but I would still prefer something like a +2 bonus to two skills selected by the player out of those described above and something like “Brechts prefer those feats”. So most players still select the “racial” feats, but they need not. To be a human was always an advantage, because it is easer to meet the requirement for an PrC (for example). Now this advantage is gone…

If there wouldn’t be that curious skill penalty for Elves/ Half-Elves, it’s IMO really better to play one of these races…

Raesene Andu schrieb:

> This post was generated by the Birthright.net message forum.

> You can view the entire thread at:

> http://www.birthright.net/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=36&t=2052

>

> Raesene Andu wrote:

…

> Half-elves

Racial Abilities: Cerilian half-elves have the following racial traits:

> • +2 Dexterity, -2 Constitution.

> • Medium-size, base speed of 30 feet.

> • Immunity to magic sleep spells and a +2 racial saving throw bonus against enchantment spells or effects.

> • Low-light Vision: A half-elf can see twice as far as a human in starlight, torchlight,

or other conditions of poor illumination.

A question about vision: Pn p. 133 of the PHB miss chances are given for

fighting in various degrees of light and darkness. Does Low-light Vision

mean for example that a half-elf would not suffer the 10% miss chance in

moderate darkness - if moderate darkness=starlight?

bye

Michael

On Fri, 31 Oct 2003, Michael Romes wrote:

> A question about vision: Pn p. 133 of the PHB miss chances are given for

> fighting in various degrees of light and darkness. Does Low-light Vision

> mean for example that a half-elf would not suffer the 10% miss chance in

> moderate darkness - if moderate darkness=starlight?

Low light vision is straight from the PHB, it should work the same as the

description there. It`s probably first described under Elves in the PHB,

but you could check the index too.

–

Daniel McSorley

On Fri, 31 Oct 2003, Ariadne wrote:

> Why do Half elves get a Diplomacy PENALTY??!!!

To make the whiney powergamers cry.

–

Daniel McSorley

Originally posted by Ariadne@Oct 31 2003, 06:43 AM
[b] Why do Half-elves and Elves get a Diplomacy (and Gather information) PENALTY??!!!

Elves and Half-Elves are charismatic creatures, a bonus would make more sense… [/b]

Basically because they have been at war with almost all of the other races. The wording reflects that it doesn’t always apply, only in the areas where they have an infamous reputation.

In 2nd ed it specifically talked about how humans distrusted elves and treated half-elves with great suspicion referring to them as ‘changelings’.

Their natural charisma would help to offset this penalty, but not the prejudice that surrounds it.

Of all the human cultures only the Vos were specifically listed as not being on a distrust/hate status with the elves. IMO this is a whole lot better than the 3.5 bonus to half-elves for these things. Why they (the 3.5 authors) didn’t give that bonus to halflings instead defies most logic, halflings are almost universally ‘liked’ and trusted by dem-humans and humans in all settings, except for Dark Sun that is.

In exchange where they have the infamous reputation they get a bonus to intimidation, seems to work fairly well - logically that is.

[b]Half-elves

Racial Abilities: Cerilian half-elves have the following racial traits:
• +2 Dexterity, -2 Constitution.
[/b]

Although it defies the 3.x standard of +2/-2 for ability modifiers, how about giving half-elves exactly half the bonuses and penalties of elves? Meaning,
+1 Dexterity, +1 Charisma, -1 Constitution, -1 Strength.

This would help explain the edge that half-elven bards and sorcerers enjoy.

Elven Blood: A half-elf can be considered an elf for many purposes, including the casting of true magic.

I would also specifically mention the half-elven access to elven racial feats like Spellsong and Elven Artisan. This is important for half-elven bards especially.

I think the “outcast” effects on elves and half-elves are well-done. I would add to this a similar reaction penalty in areas where they are infamous.

I would add a +4 bonus for elves when resisting magical disease.

Aging attacks no longer exist except in homebrewed rules, is it necessary to mention it in the half-elven save bonuses?

Half-elven lifespan: Since the Sidhelien are immortal, shouldn’t half-elves have longer lifespans than PHB half-elves? In my game, I gave them the PHB elven lifespans, except that they reached adulthood around 40-50 years (the 110 year old young adult elf from the PHB is idiotic - it’s unchanged from the old AD&D rules when elves lived for 1000+ years). That seems reasonable for a half-immortal, yes?

I’ve also been playing with extended lifespans for persons with elven heritage. For instance, the child of a half-elf and human is basically 1/4 elven (genetic specifics aside) - not enough to grant the general 1/2-elven racial type, but enough elven blood to extend their lifespans beyond the human norm. This is partly inspired by Tolkien’s idea of how elven blood extends the life of human lines even down through many generations (the Numenorians). Here’s how I might break it down:

1/2-elven: Adult at 40 years, Max 350 + 4d100 years
1/4-elven (elven grandparent): Adult at 25 years, Max 150 + 5d20 years
1/8 elven (elven great-grandparent): Adult at 20 years, Max 125 + 3d20 years (as PHB 1/2-elf)
1/16, 1/32: As human, except +10 years to middle, old, and venerable age categories.
1/64 or less: “Elven Ancestry,” +5 years to middle age+ categories

There’s no major effect on the adventuring scale for PC’s (hence no ECL adjustment necessary IMO), but it does add a neat flavor element, and allows for half-elves like the High Mage Aelies to live for centuries without the Long Life blood ability. What do you think?

i View the elves to be tha natzy of the world.

Natcy: We are all equal, by you people are not part of us (comunistic among them slefe, but fasistic toward others)

Anarcy: like comunists without a central goverment or anyone thinking whats best for you.


Imortality.

in Tolkien there was a elf thet loved a human, and gave herself to him. and by thet act she lost her imortality, and finaly left this world to follow her love to the afterlife.

Would this be possible here?

:ph34r:

I like the modifiers to diplomacy, gather information and intimidate. One minor mechanics point, the modifiers should be circumstance, not racial. They are not innate to the elves, but apply when the elves are in the right (or wrong) geographic area due to historical circumstances.

Osprey wrote:
>I would also specifically mention the half-elven access to elven racial feats >like Spellsong and Elven Artisan. This is important for half-elven bards >especially.

This should be based upon the individual half-elfs life and so left up to the DM. If a half-elf grew up in elven lands, they probably should have access, but if they grew up in human lands and have human cultural attitudes and traits, then maybe the elves would not be willing to share these feats with the half-human.

Reasene Andu wrote:

“Halflings […]
• +2 Dexterity, -2 Strength. […]
Elves […]
• +2 Dexterity, +2 Charisma, -2 Strength, -2 Constitution.”

I would like to see halflings have lower Strength score than sidhelien. After all, they are smaller, have lower Str in 2e Br too, and are considered elf-like by many to boot. So I propose +4 Dex, -4 Str for halflings.

–the Falcon

Raesene Andu wrote:

“• Shadow Sense: Halflings possess the ability to attune their vision to the shadow world. This provides them with a limited ability to sense undead, necromantic magic, powerful evil, and areas where the veil between Aebrynis and the Shadow World is thin. […]”

So how does it work exactly?

Raesene Andu wrote:

“• Increased Density: A dwarf’s dense body provides DR 1/slashing. Dwaves suffer a -4 penalty to swim and tumble checks.
Now changed to DR 1+Con modifier/slashing.”

I don’t know, this could go either way. On the one hand, having DR seems to warrent a Level Adjustment to me. On the other hand, if you’re a dwarf and fighting against anyone who knows anything about dwarves, you’ll just be set upon with piercing and bludgeoning attacks, totally negating your DR. It just seems to conditional to be a feature for a player character race. If and when this ability is useful kind of totally depends on the whim of the DM, rather than the wishes of the player. Also, mind you, bite attacks are piercing, slashing and bludgeoning, so against a lot of creatures who do not have the option of switching weapons it’s pretty useless, too.

In short, it just doesn’t seem to be worth the while. I would just leave it out and maybe change the ability adjustments to something like +2 Strength, +2 Constitution, –2 Dexterity, –2 Charisma for that extra kick.

–the Falcon