What was the basis for the Cerilian Dragon? I have a player lucky enough to “blessed” with Bloodform as a great blood ability(his concept is that he is one of the heroes close to the explosion at Deismaar; True Bloodline; later corrupted Bloodtrait-> Bloodform).
With his “totem” being a dragon, I felt that it would be appropriate to use a Cerilian Dragon. As the dragon charts for the cerilian dragon arent complete ,I need to reverse engineer them and develope some statistics to work from to create a power set for the awnshegh who is known as “The Dragon”.
Currently He’s got only a few dragon hit dice, and some statistic boosts in-line with the Half-Dragon Template(ill edit specifics later). What powers would you suggest in the coming levels for this awnsheghlien?
Currently ECL 10, 4 Dragon Hit Dice, 2 Fighter Hit Dice, +3LA True Bloodline, +1 LA Great Heritage
This is a file I made some time back; I researched quite a lot to find all the patterns that have been used in the books so that I could apply them on the Cerilian dragon. The Cerilian dragon is, obviously, a little similar in many terms to the blue dragon. Note that the CRs I put in are token values: I have not yet playtested the stats to see how they play out and assign true CRs.
The “totem” animals were those associated with the “former” human deities. They are listed in the 2nd ed BR rulebook and also in the BRCS.
Dragons were not “deities” and there is not currently a bloodline derived from them. Likewise there isn’t a bloodline for the old giants (see Blood Spawn) or the Sie (same source) for that matter. All of them could easily be lumped together as the “elders” if one wanted to.
Something else to keep in mind is that Dragons are arcane in nature (hence the connection to a “source”) while bloodlines would be divine if using 3.5 terminology.
There was information in the 2nd ed material talking about dragon bones being “sources” but that is a major difference than a bloodline deriviation.
There are so “few” Cerilian “true” dragons left that is is not really a good idea to use them so, IMO. They don’t fit that way in the “core” rules either.
Having said that, it doesn’t mean that someone (e.g. RaspK_FOG) wouldn’t write an adventure with a “younger” dragon in it - but it would still be a unique scenario.
Actually, I have already started doing just that; but the scenario still needs work, and I would gladly have all the help I am given. The story is pretty much written, I just need to make the finishing touches and a lot of other minor things… not! like playtesting.
Oh what i meant was that the PC is an Awnshegh, and his form is changing to emulate that of a dragon. As such his “theme creature” as they recommend in the BRCS is a dragon. Its likely he will never have any of the coolness of a real dragon, its just that his awnshegh powers are going to be similar to those of a dragon.
Take a look at all the other notorious awnsheghlien, and youll see what Im talking about.
“The Gorgan”
“The Vampire”
“The Magian”
“The Spider”
the list goes on…
If that’s what you aim for, I suggest that you jot down some lesser dragons (by canon, a lesser dragon is any non-metallic, non-chromatic, non-gem, non-lung and non-extraplanar dragon [i.e. any other creature with the dragon type]), like the various drakes you can find, or a wyvern. An interesting read on the subject as to the development of the character as a critter is a 2e sourcebook for the Dark Sun campaign setting that detailed the dragon metamorphosis; you should really check it out.
Bloodform, if i’m not mistaken, changes your form to be in line with your own base nature. So, presumably, if this character acts like a dragon, he will morph in such a way to be representative of that.
A PC as an awnshegh. Is the PC evil? Is this an evil party? Or will the good PC’s ultimately have to deal with this PC’s changing state? I can envision a drama similar to the Manticore’s coming out of this.
I for one though would never, ever have players with “true” bloodlines.
It just causes too many complications.
In the original material PCs were not allowed to start (or gain via improvement - see Book of Regency) a True bloodline either.
The “random” table variant in the BRCS does not nclude true for this reason. There is also a “caution” in Ch 2 about it.
While Ch 2 doesn’t talk about it, basically because it was assumed that players wouldn’t be running around with “true” bloodlines, - IMO it should be impossible to change a “true” bloodline derivation to another one via any means. That means it can’t be “corrupted”. This is tied into how a person gained a true bloodline in the first place. They had to be immediately present and be philosophically closest to the expiring gods.
True bloodlines are unique. Only the greatest heroes of Deismaar, those who were both physically and philosophically closest to the expiring gods, were granted True bloodlines. Only these surviving heroes or their direct heirs through bloodline investiture have True bloodlines. There are believed to be less than a dozen true bloodlines in existence.
All known True bloodlines are currently possessed by powerful awnshegh or ehrshegh. These individuals are near demigods and are rumored to be able to grant a divine connection that allows their followers access to divine magic. Some True scions are rumored to have other divine abilities beyond the ken of most mortals
For the DM: Playing a Great or True Bloodline
While the rules would allow every player to play a scion with a Great bloodline this is not wise. Having a Great bloodline entails a lot of responsibility that goes with the power. Scions with Great bloodlines are descendents of great rulers. They are born to rule, even if they are not destined to succeed their parent due to circumstances (birth order, etc.) they are destined to become great rulers in their own right. The land itself tends to call them to an appropriate domain for rulership.
Commoners and minor regents seeking favors and other things that demand their attention often besiege them. Awnshegh and blood-seeking scions often pursue scions with great bloodlines with evil intent. Scions with great bloodlines do not generally spend a lot of time adventuring after their youth except on quests of epic proportions. Their responsibilities tend to draw them elsewhere.
Due to the detail and attention that a great bloodline draws it is very difficult for a non-experienced player to handle the task, especially in a non-domain level based campaign.
PCs should not generally be allowed to have True bloodlines. These are reserved for those present at Deismaar and their direct descendents. It is incumbent on the DM to control access to these powerful bloodlines and it should be a story line necessity to invest a PC with one. The pressure and attention required of a True bloodline is even more than that required of a Great one so even more DM attention is required to handle the specifics.
at the moment, I dont have a problem with his true bloodline. I have no doubt he will have a backstory worthy of his bloodline, and he paid his level adjustments for it. In addition, he is well aware of his weakness as an adventurer in comparison to the other PCs(who are each 10th level), and his blood abilities arent as “munchy” as they couldve been.
Aside from that, he justifies that he is one of the originals, very close to the explosion at Deismaar. He has the Long Life(great) ability as well. His concept centers around his corruption, and his charcter is Lawful Evil. His background falls within the realm of at least believeability, so I have no problem with it at the moment.
In addition, I havent played Birthright in 10 years, so alot of this material is new to me again. The systems and ideas of 3.5 D&D arent new to me at all.
It is your game and if it makes sense to you then go with it.
The “revised” and sanctioned Chap 2 (bloodlines) no longer has a “level adjustment” for bloodline strength so make sure you are using the correct version of Ch 1 and 2 (for 3.5). Chapters 1 and 2 are up to 3.5 standards now (the sanctioned versions that is) - the rest of the BRCS is pretty much still a 3.0 version so it should be looked at in that light.
There is currently no scion level for a true bloodline, again since it should be so very rare for a PC.
You can add another level to the existing Azrai one (since his PC is of Azrai derivation).
See attached for a 3rd scion class level I worked up a while ago.
Now something that is of key importance though - just being present and in the immediate presence of the deities’ death is not sufficient (nor was it in 2nd ed) to justify a True bloodline. This is a core concept of the BR bloodline system to keep in mind.
In order to justify having a True Azrai bloodline the character had to be on par in loyalty, personality and performance to The Gorgon, The Spider and Rhoube. They were in the immediate vicinity and were some of Azrai’s greatest generals, along with the 2 that ascended to godhood (Krisha and Belnik). That is something to keep in mind and hold tight to. If his PC was not on the same level as those 5 then he doesn’t deserve a True bloodline. He would have a Great one if only due to his proximity to the battle - but a scion can never acquire a True bloodline by actions only by being present (and meeting the specified criteria) or by being a direct descendant of one that did.
There is another possibility to “justify” the True bloodline, but that one relates to Azrai’s “chosen” (basically the Lost). That one is much, much harder to justify for a PC though.
I would ask yuo to give serious thought about the ramification of allowing a PC to have a True Bloodline though and to make sure it fits with the “history” of the setting. Again, it is your game so you can “tweak” things as you see the need.
Actually, I downloaded the PDF only without looking at the other stuff (thought it was older) and had it printed for my reference. So far ive been going off of that.
Aside from that, the player’s background states that his bloodline originally came from Andurias (I think) and that it was later corrupted do to all of the awnshegh slaying that soon followed. It was the corruption of his blood that helped his fall to evil (PC is aiming at blackgaurd levels once he gains enough experience). Its Mikal’s PC though, Ive only got the footnotes so far, he would likely have the most complete version of that story so far. To me, it falls within the realm of believability, so its acceptable.
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Isnt it also possible that a True bloodline can be gained by following the process detailed in the BRCS? He could raise his bloodline by 4 and attempt a quest that would add to his image, and thus increase his bloodline strength?
Hi everyone. True blooded person in question here. I think there’s some misunderstanding going on. The character in question was in fact at desimaar and was a true bloodline of ANDURIAS during it. Lawful good, and fit the ideals of his god totally. Became an Erhshiegh. Spent several centuries hunting down awnsheigh that he could face. eventually he faced a true blooded awnsheigh, and Azrai’s curse was finally able to take over his derivation, a sort of attack on one who’d been able to resist the curse for centuries due to his pure blood.
If you want I can print out the full backstory I have thus far
Um, but why would his bloodline derivation change? You don’t become an awnshegh just by defeating other awnshegh. You can gain bloodline strength but the derivation stays the same.
The only way i can think of to change your bloodline derivation to Azrai’s is a nasty little spell devised by the Magian.
If you Usurp (or worse, commit Bloodtheft), your derivation can change.
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And whats worse, its much easier to be changed to Azrai. In general, your party fights foes who will challenge them, and that means theyre usually higher level, or have potent abilities(enough to be able to deal with 4 characters). A blood check against a foe who has a bloodline strong enough for a PC to gain from Usurping will usually yeild bloodline corruption.
Hmmm… just found it Chapter 2 of the BRCS. This must be a mechanic for 3e, as i don’t recall this being possible in the original 2nd Ed. I’ll have to go look that up.
This means your character there must’ve been facing some serious bad-ass awnsheghlien. Sounds like it’s epic adventuring.
Well, like i said, backstory. He WAS at Desimaar and was a hard core ershiegh for the first few hundred years. he recently came back out of ‘retirement’ per se to achieve his plan that came up when he got corrupted by Azrai
Alright which true blooded Azrai awnsheigh? There are only a few of those and they are all specifically listed. Remember that in the early days Azrai’s scions fed off of each other, which is why there are so few of the higher blooded ones.
Second, using the BRCS sanctioned Ch 2 mechanics this really should not be all that possible.
While this bloodline usurpation may seem an easy way to increase a scion’s blood power, it does come with its risks. When a scion absorbs the bloodline essence of a scion with a bloodline score higher than his, then he faces the risk of the victim’s bloodline derivation effectively overwhelming his own. It is actually possible for a scion’s bloodline derivation to change as the new, more powerful bloodline grounds itself in the slayer’s body. This can only occur if the slayer absorbs the maximum RP (twice his current bloodline score) during usurpation. If this happens, then the scion must make a contested bloodline check or change the derivation of his bloodline to the newly absorbed derivation.
[LEFT]
If your PC started out with a True Anduiras bloodline - which aspect of the deity was the PC most closely associated with?
There would have been tremendous stories of his greatness in battle and leadership prior to Deismaar. That would put him on par with Haelyn and Roele as far as status goes. This means that the Gogon would have targeted him preferentially very early on since the PC would have represented someone that his “brothers” had a powerful pier/ally.
This is one of the reasons why it is a really bad idea to allow a PC to have a True bloodline - it requires a large rewrite in the established history of the setting. All characters with True bloodlines should be significant to the history of the setting.[/LEFT]
[LEFT]There is a character in Ruins of Empire (pg 74) that might be a template for the “type” of PC you want. Teodre Profiev, a paladin of Haelyn with a major Azrai bloodline. I think there is another character listed with an Azrai bloodline that he is “fighting” - I just can’t remember who or where he was listed.[/LEFT]
The story is pretty much written, I just need to make the finishing touches and a lot of other minor things… not! like playtesting.