My DM made the rule that you get when burning 1 bloodpoint 100 exp x the amount of RP you would get for burning 1 bloodpoint.
Actually, I made it 100 xp x current Bloodline score [BRCS-level bloodline (ability) scores]. So by expending a permanent point of Bloodline score at say 27, the item creator would get 2700 xp for making a magic item. This xp is usable only for a single item…any excess xp are lost.
Here’s the realm spell learning system I’ve adopted for my own BR campaign.
The Spellcraft DC to learn a Realm Spell is DC 15 + 2 per level of the realm spell being researched (so DC 17 through 33 for level 1-9 spells). I also integrated Raesene’s suggestion a while back of lowering the research time to 1 week per level, though it still costs 1 GB per level of the spell (=1 GB per week of realm spell research). I found this to be more in proportion to the costs and times required for regular spells vs. realm spells. Failure on the spellcraft check means the money and time is spent, but the spell is not mastered. The researcher may not again attempt to learn the realm spell until he or she has gained a new spellcaster level (appropriate to the spell being learned, of course).
actually, you can increase the time for epic spells thats where i was getting the reason for the lower spellcraft DC. every 1 min up to 10 min = -2 DC. Every 1 day up to 100 days = -2 DC. This is on pages 88-92 in the Epic book.
So, if you have a spell require 32 days to cast, then it would have a -20 DC (for the first 10 min) and -64 DC for it requiring 32 days so a total of -84 DC to the spell craft check. Heheh, if you add in that others are helping…
The basic formula = 2 x spell slot level - 1. So it starts at for a 1st level slot -1 DC and it goes to -3 for 2nd level -5 for 3rd level ect.
Lets say 3 other spell casters (doesnt matter if theyre are divine or arcane) all throw in a 3rd level spell slot (either give up a spell or use an empty slot). Thats -5 DC per spell caster so a total of -15 to the spellcraft DC.
Thus far we got -99 DC to the spellcraft check… heheh
So how hard would it be to cast the spell 
depends on how powerful you would want to consider it really. If were considering a realm spell meant to affect a whole province… thats an area of what? roughly 30-50 square miles? so for ease lets say 40 square miles, or 115135952 ft^2. The DC to increase a spells radius by 100% is +4. So if we have a spell with a radius of 40’ that would require… woah damn… oh about… hmm… not so easy to calculate as it grows rather fast… so it requires increasing the spell radius 22 times to get it to 167772160 ft^2 close enough really. so that means 22 x 4 = +88 to the spell craft DC. so now were at -11 DC for the spellcraft check.
EDIT: ok so fora province with 1000 square miles that would be 27878398812 ft^2. So it would take 29-30 (30 to go over it, 29 is just about 6 billion ft^2 shy.) multiples to cover it. Thus making the DC 116-120. (So to redo what was said, it would make the DC 49 for a specialist and DC 54 for a non specialist.)
if we increase the duration also, so the spell lasts for a month, instead of 1 min, then that would also increase the DC by +2 DC per 100% increase so… 46080 min in a 32 day month, and it requires 16 increases to get the spell to 65536 min so thats 16 x 2 = +32 to the spellcraft DC. So now were at a 22 DC spellcraft check.
If this spell is in the specialist school then tey would get a -5 to the DC so they would have a DC of 17. Heheh now that doesnt seem so tough.
It would also give the spell creation a cost of 9000 gp x 17 DC = 153000 gp and an exp cost of 6120.
This is just a basic example. the caster could always increase the casting time or the number of people helpin to cast the spell to further lower the DC, however, it should always have a Base cost probably just left at DC 10 so it would cost 9000 gp x 10 = 90000 gp and an exp cost of 3600 exp no matter how low they put the spell craft DC. Heheh, however, this would only be for creating an unknown realm spell.
For researching a known realm spell, keepin the exsisting system seems fine with me.
Finally, I noticed that the system is based on the 2ndE version… well thats good to know however, lots of things hav changed in the conversion of magic to the 3/3.5E.
So wouldnt it make sense to “update” the way the spell costs were determined also? Heh, were not talkin exact science here, just approximations of course, as we all have lives to lead
EDIT: What I was proposing here was only for in charadter creation of realm spells, not for creation of spells out of character. So, if a DM wants to make a spell for a certain character thats appropriate for him, you wouldnt use the method I’m proposing.
Some very good stuff I see… B)
Here a quick idea for creating realm spell for you to discuss. I have to go to work now, but I’ll get back to finishing this later
Creating Realm Spells
Level:
As normal spell
Gold/Regency:
Level 1-2: 1
Level 3-4: 2
Level 5-6: 4
Level 7-8: 8
Level 9-10: 10
Target Modifiers
Multiple targets: x0.5
Entire Province: x0.5
Holding: x1.0
Unit: x1.5
Ley Line: x1.5
Individual: x2.0
Target is willing: x0.5
Target is enemy: x2.0
Duration/Effect Modifiers
Instantaneous: x0.5
1 week+: x0.5
3 months: x1.0
Longer than 3 months: x1.5
Permanent1: x2.0
Gold Cost Modifiers
Material component < 500 gp x1.0
Material component 500-2000 gp x1.5
Material component > 2000gp x2.0
Regency Cost Modifiers
Multiple targets, single GB cost2 x2.0
1 Spells whose effects are permanent (such as mass destruction and raze) are considered permanent for the purposes of determining RP and GB cost.
2 When designing a spell that affects multiple targets, you may choose to have a single base GB cost, but increase the RP cost/target.
By the way, all the modifiers are to cost, the forums screw up the formatting, or this would be easier to see.
A province is about 1000 square miles.
-----Original Message-----
From: Birthright Roleplaying Game Discussion
[mailto:BIRTHRIGHT-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM] On Behalf Of tcharazazel
Sent: 27. april 2004 00:08
To: BIRTHRIGHT-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM
Subject: Re: Chapter 7 Revision [36#2507]
This post was generated by the Birthright.net message forum.
You can view the entire thread at:
http://www.birthright.net/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=36&t=2507
tcharazazel wrote:
actually, you can increase the time for epic spells thats where i was
getting the reason for the lower spellcraft DC. every 1 min up to 10 min
= -2 DC. Every 1 day up to 100 days = -2 DC. This is on pages 88-92 in
the Epic book.
So, if you have a spell require 32 days to cast, then it would have a
-20 DC (for the first 10 min) and -64 DC for it requiring 32 days so a
total of -84 DC to the spell craft check. Heheh, if you add in that
others are helping…
The basic formula = 2 x spell slot level - 1. So it starts at for a 1st
level slot -1 DC and it goes to -3 for 2nd level -5 for 3rd level ect.
Lets say 3 other spell casters (doesnt matter if theyre are divine or
arcane) all throw in a 3rd level spell slot (either give up a spell or
use an empty slot). Thats -5 DC per spell caster so a total of -15 to
the spellcraft DC.
Thus far we got -99 DC to the spellcraft check… heheh
So how hard would it be to cast the spell depends on how powerful
you would want to consider it really. If were considering a realm spell
meant to affect a whole province… thats an area of what? roughly 30-50
square miles? so for ease lets say 40 square miles, or 115135952 ft^2.
The DC to increase a spells radius by 100% is +4. So if we have a spell
with a radius of 40` that would require… woah damn… oh about…
hmm… not so easy to calculate as it grows rather fast… so it
requires increasing the spell radius 22 times to get it to 167772160
ft^2 close enough really. so that means 22 x 4 = +88 to the spell craft
DC. so now were at -11 DC for the spellcraft check.
if we increase teh duration also, so the spell lasts for a month,
instead of 1 min, then that would also increase the DC by +2 DC per 100%
increase so… 46080 min in a 32 day month, and it requires 16 increases
to get the spell to 65536 min so thats 16 x 2 = +32 to the spellcraft
DC. So now were at a 22 DC spellcraft check.
If this spell is in the specialist school then tey would get a -5 to
the DC so they would have a DC of 17. Heheh now that doesnt seem so
tough.
It would also give the spell creation a cost of 9000 gp x 17 DC =
153000 gp and an exp cost of 6120.
This is just a basic example. the caster could always increase the
casting time or the number of people helpin to cast the spell to further
lower the DC, however, it should always have a Base cost probably just
left at DC 10 so it would cost 9000 gp x 10 = 90000 gp and an exp cost
of 3600 exp no matter how low they put the spell craft DC. Heheh,
however, this would only be for creating an unknown realm spell.
For researching a known realm spell, keepin the exsisting system seems
fine with me.
Finally, I noticed that the system is based on the 2ndE version… well
thats good to know however, lots of things hav changed in the conversion
of magic to the 3/3.5E.
So wouldnt it make sense to “update” the way the spell costs
were determined also? Heh, were not talkin exact science here, just
approximations of course, as we all have lives to lead
Birthright-l Archives:
Originally posted by Raesene Andu@Apr 25 2004, 01:26 PM
[b]- More of the info from Book of Magecraft on sources and leylines, + EXAMPLES!!
- New realm spells (I’ll post info on these before finalising the revision)
- Random tables for determining NPC or PC realm spells known OR, at the very least a list of all the spells before their descriptions. Very useful as anyone who is looking up spells for their spellcaster knows.
- Expanding the info on magic potential to include info on restoring magic potential and so forth.
[/b]
Personally I am all for making new realm spells, and have written a number myself. That said I must admit to some curiosity as to what happened to the plan to limit the BRCS to a conversion of 2e BR and to not include any house rules. Aren’t new spells just one of the classic examples of house rules commonly incorporated in most campaigns, and one who often shows the greatest degree of variation fbetween individual campaigns?
The suggestion of limiting house rules to BR.net has come up in other threads, and I think new spells (and magic items, NPCs, monsters etc.) are better of submitted to the site than to try gain some form of consensus on what spells to include and not. Where will the line be drawn? Can anybody have their spells included, will there be a poll for every single new spell, or will somebody simply decide what spells get included and not?
Personally I think what is mostly needed is more information on sources and ley lines. In particular the interaction between sources, armies, mundane actions etc. should be discussed and clarified.
Cheers,
E
That was the old BRCS That was pretty much just a straight conversion of the 2E material, no major additions.
I think the new version needs to add a little more material, and if that material has to come from house rules, then so be it.
A lot of the material I’m adding to this chapter however is just BoM stuff that was left out of the original BRCS that I think should be in there. As for the new spells, most are divine spells, especially those specific to one particular god. Some are spells originally left out of the BRCS for various reasons that were in the original material.
As for everyone getting their spells included, sure, I have no problem with that, the more the merrier. Post them here and if I think they’re suitable for the BRCS, then in they go. We’ll go with the format that Osprey suggested (so you need level, gold & regency cost, target, duration, and required holding).
so using your system then Raesene:
a level 1-2 spell would have a base cost of 1 Gold/RP x 0.5 to affect the entire province x 0.5 for instantaneous effect x 1.0 for costing <500 gp…
I’m not sure I’m getting that right… as it would be something like .25 Gold/RP… hmm, would you please give an example so I get it right? Thanks
Rounded up, so a minimum cost of 1 GB, 1 RP…
Note: I’ve only just started work on the system, that was the best I could come up with for about 15-20mins work. I haven’t even tried to convert any spells yet, but do that tonight to see how the system works and make adjustments then.
ok cool
Originally posted by Raesene Andu@Apr 26 2004, 05:29 PM
Target Modifiers
Multiple targets: x0.5
Entire Province: x0.5
Holding: x1.0
Unit: x1.5
Ley Line: x1.5
Individual: x2.0
Target is willing: x0.5
Target is enemy: x2.0
Multipliers seem to be off.
For example it is only X 0.5 for multiple targets while it is X 1.0 for a single target.
Same with a single holding versus an entire province.
Originally posted by Raesene Andu@Apr 26 2004, 06:23 PM
[b] That was the old BRCS
I think the new version needs to add a little more material, and if that material has to come from house rules, then so be it.
A lot of the material I’m adding to this chapter however is just BoM stuff that was left out of the original BRCS that I think should be in there. As for the new spells, most are divine spells, especially those specific to one particular god. Some are spells originally left out of the BRCS for various reasons that were in the original material.
As for everyone getting their spells included, sure, I have no problem with that, the more the merrier. Post them here and if I think they’re suitable for the BRCS, then in they go. We’ll go with the format that Osprey suggested (so you need level, gold & regency cost, target, duration, and required holding). [/b]
Don E is actually correct. The BRCS itself should more limited.
What is a good idea is to include some examples of created spells after the ‘formula’ for research. The rest belong in the Royal Library as options for the everyone. Otherwise the BRCS will end up being 500+ pages after everyone gets their own spells inserted. People have already commented on the limited download capability that some they have and larger documents just serve to make it more difficult so that needs to be kept in mind.
It is probably a good idea to include a single unique spell for each deity, which by their inclusion can serve as a pattern/example to grow on. This could serve as the replacement for the ‘quest’ spells from the Book of Priestcraft, which don’t really exist in 3.5 and were incomplete and unbalanced in the BoP.
Originally posted by tcharazazel@Apr 26 2004, 03:29 PM
To research a realm spell it currently only requires 1gb per month spent researching and them to make a spellcraft DC + spell level. And I think thats fine as long as they are just Researching a Known spell, and not actually Making a new realm spell.
Actually the cost of researching any spell is the same in 3.5. So that pattern should be maintained. Also the point of having to research (i.e., learn) each realm spell makes it a point that they are extremely rare. Far fewer casters capable of casting realm magic than true magic after all 
hence they are not ‘known’. "Known’ implies the same familiarity that allows a wizard to pick 2 new spells when he gains levels.
Another proposed modification:
Shouldn’t Summon Monstrous Unit be available to clerics as well as source regents, as both types cast the identical base spell at the same spell levels, Summon Monster (I-IX)?
In my campaign, I simply called it Summon Divine Legions, but its mechanics are pretty much identical to Summon Monstrous Unit, which in the BRCS already states that the creatures summoned are appropriate to the caster’s alignment and inclination. To me that pretty much means look at the 3.5 Summon Monster spell and choose appropriate types from the lists (at max. Summon Monster level minus 1, as Summon Monstrous Unit is a level 2 realm spell, so I’d say it acts a realm-scale Summon Monster II, summoning multiple creatures from the SM I list).
The only difference I’d suggest is to raise the Temple requirement to Temple (5), as summoning an entire host of a deity’s servants and warriors should require some serious clout with one’s deity. In general, I think the existing SMU realm spell is extremely powerful…if it were up to me, I’d make it a level 3+ realm spell, and raise the Source requirement to (5) for source regents. Though I know this is at odds with the 2e original…
Originally posted by irdeggman@Apr 27 2004, 07:05 PM
[b] Multipliers seem to be off.
For example it is only X 0.5 for multiple targets while it is X 1.0 for a single target.
Same with a single holding versus an entire province. [/b]
As I mention I haven’t finished the system, but the theory is that with multiple targets you pay a GB and RP cost for each target. So for each province or unit that the spell affects you need to pay the cost, this is why it has a x0.5 multiplyer. (I’m trying to match up the system with the current spells so they get close to fitting).
And it stands to reason that targetting something like a realm spell on a single group of people or an individual is a lot more difficult than a whole province.
um irdeggman, what part didnt you understand of the quote?
cause im not following what the comment was about…
Heh, it doesnt matter either really, as were past it now.
Ok, cool Raesene so to redo that example again… this time with one unit and for multiple targets
for a lvl 3 spell 2 GB/RP x 1.5 for one unit x 2.0 for being the enemy x 0.5 for instanteous x 0.5 for <500 gp material costs
so that would be 1.5 GB and RP to make… hmm that seems rather low to make a spell similar to destruction… though how would you add in the increased # of units per level? Or would you only be able to make a spell with a fixed number of targets then?
cause you could make the spell affect 6 units tho it would cost an extra x 3 gb/rp to do so…
for a lvl 3 spell 2 GB/RP x 1.5 for one unit x 6 x 0.5 for 6 targets x 2.0 for being the enemy x 0.5 for instanteous x 0.5 for <500 gp material costs = 4.5 gb/rp
hmm… heh, to hit 6 units with a realm spell version of fireball while the normal mass destruction costs 10rp/unit and 5 gb…
Also Im not sure what the increased material costs are included for or how they are really calculated unless your just using the component cost from the base spell.
Would also recomend including some mitigating factors, like those in the epic book, ie lower costs by increasing the number of casters required, or the time to cast the spell, ect.
Originally posted by tcharazazel@Apr 28 2004, 12:35 PM
[b] For a lvl 3 spell 2 GB/RP x 1.5 for one unit x 2.0 for being the enemy x 0.5 for instanteous x 0.5 for <500 gp material costs
so that would be 1.5 GB and RP to make… hmm that seems rather low to make a spell similar to destruction… though how would you add in the increased # of units per level? Or would you only be able to make a spell with a fixed number of targets then? [/b]
Ok, using your example, the amounts are rounded up, so it would be 2 GB and 2 RP for 1 unit. Now, you have it as Instantaneous, looking at the Mass Destruction realm spell, it isn’t exactly instantaneous, you can delay the effects for a while. Also Mass Destruction also unleshes mutiple forms of energy on its victims.
When designing a realm spell you also need to design the spell for just 1 target to start with and then use the cost of that spell as the cost/target. So something that costs 2 GB and 2 RP to destroy 1 unit, would cost 12 GB and 12 RP to destroy 6 units… if you see what I’m getting at. That compares a little closer to Mass Destruction, in that it has a much higher GB cost, but a reduced RP cost…
And… if you were to go with a similar system to Mass destruction, where the spell’s effects are delayed for up to a week or so, then the cost for destroying 1 unit rises to 3GB and 3 RP, and the cost for destroying 6 units rises to 15 GB and 15 RP, compared to 5 GB and 60 RP for the original version of mass destruction.
The modifiers for material costs are a bit dodgy, I just tossed that in there at the last minute to try and adjust for spell that had really high components costs in their standard versions.
This is not something that is easy to design a system for, not easy at all. The one I posted took me roughly 20 minutes to design, but I haven’t managed to come up with something better since
ok cool.
Yeah, so if you have a spell like mass destruction then, it would have something like fireball and lightning so when combining base spells into a realm spell of the same and of different spell level how would you include that in the calculations? just multipy them in? so for the mass destruction with fireball and lightning
2 x 2 (for both spells) x 1.5 for one unit x 2.0 for enemy x 0.5 for instant x 0.5 for material costs <500gp = 3gb/rp
heheh, now what about adding metamagic to the spells and thus increasing the spell level of the spell. ie if you use maximized fireball and lightning the spell level would be 6 lvl. So the cost would be for both in the spell:
4 x 4 x 1.5 x 2 x .5 x .5 = 12gb/rp
or just 3 gb/rp if its only fireball or lightning instead of both in the spell.
honestly, i wasnt too sure about the delay 1 week… as it says x 0.5 for 1 week+ for duration and for 3 months its x 1.0. Though why would an instantaneous type of spell like a fireball be classified as permanent tho really when you said that it has a delay as a delay doesnt = permanent because the spell effect is still instantaneous
normally for permanent effects its a beneficial spell like see invisible or on a realm spell scale bless lands… heheh
So to bless lands permanently it would cost per province:
1 for spell level x 0.5 for entire province x 2.0 for permanent x 0.5 for <500gp = .5 gb/rp rounded up 1gp/rp per province to effectively add +1 to the province level and temple level permanently… wow thats dirt cheap… hmm… well its prob cause im not sure what spell would be appropriate to use, i just guessed bless… tho if something like a level 3-4 spell used then it would still just be 1gb/rp. Why would anybody bother to cast the old version of it every season when permancy costs the same?
or if you put in protection from magic using greater dispel magic as the base spell:
3 x 0.5 x 2 x 0.5 = 1.5 gb/rp rounded up to 2 gb/rp per province heh, thats another awesome thing to get permanently for so little…
Anyway, to make sure that I got your basic idea then: The realm spells are now more based upon ritual(s), hence the higher GB costs, and less on exp cost/divine power, hence lower RP. And that also seems to go along with the lower RP availablity of the new Ch 2 version. Heheh, money is gonna make the world go round