Haven`t seen it yet. Theme is campaign classics, articles for old settings.
http://www.enworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=70970
“Birthright: Bloodlines for D&D 3.5.”
Anybody have the magazine? I guess subscribers are starting to receive it.
–
Daniel McSorley
Here is to crossing your fingers and hoping that they do it well.
The next question will be if it will be incorporated into the BRCS?
Anybody know who wrote the article?
Eosin
>
> Haven`t seen it yet. Theme is campaign classics, articles for old settings.
>
> http://www.enworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=70970
>
> “Birthright: Bloodlines for D&D 3.5.”
>
> Anybody have the magazine? I guess subscribers are starting to receive it.
> –
> Daniel McSorley
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
The Dragon 315 is officially anounced as a “lost campaign source book”. As one can see in the pre-release introduction, there will also be an “official” BIRTHRIGHT-BLOODLINE included.
What the h** does this mean? Did P-Publishing consult any fan-projects?
On Wed, 10 Dec 2003, Azrai wrote:
> The Dragon 315 is officially anounced as a "lost campaign source
> book". As one can see in the pre-release introduction, there will
> also be an “official” BIRTHRIGHT-BLOODLINE included. What the
> h** does this mean? Did P-Publishing consult any fan-projects?
We know, details of this were on enworld a couple days ago.
They didn`t ask anyone as far as I know, but why should they? They have
articles for a ton of settings in that issue, and I`m looking forward to
picking it up.
The bloodline system in there is a feat system, as I understand it you
spend a feat for a minor bloodline, and can then buy powers as additional
feats. Extra feats can raise you to major, and then great bloodline, and
each power has different effects depending on what your strength is.
For what it is, not bad. They didn`t need to do numerical strength
because that`s necessary only for domain games with RP and stuff. I
probably won`t use it, but hey, the more people that hear of birthright,
the more will google for it and find us all here 
The word “official” in the press release bugs you? Who cares? It`s just
marketing.
–
Daniel McSorley
Originally posted by DanMcSorley@Dec 10 2003, 03:35 AM
[b] The bloodline system in there is a feat system, as I understand it you spend a feat for a minor bloodline, and can then buy powers as additional feats. Extra feats can raise you to major, and then great bloodline, and each power has different effects depending on what your strength is.
For what it is, not bad. [/b]
A feat system, great… :wacko:
IMO they better should have asked us… <_<
Originally posted by Ariadne+Dec 10 2003, 08:41 AM–></span><table border=‘0’ align=‘center’ width=‘95%’ cellpadding=‘3’ cellspacing=‘1’><tr><td>QUOTE (Ariadne @ Dec 10 2003, 08:41 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id=‘QUOTE’> <!–QuoteBegin–DanMcSorley@Dec 10 2003, 03:35 AM
[b] The bloodline system in there is a feat system, as I understand it you spend a feat for a minor bloodline, and can then buy powers as additional feats. Extra feats can raise you to major, and then great bloodline, and each power has different effects depending on what your strength is.
For what it is, not bad. [/b]
A feat system, great… :wacko:
IMO they better should have asked us… <_< [/b][/quote]
I agree with the should have asked. I don’t have a lot of faith in the Dragon publishing company’s method of handling things. They tend to make things “official” as a power trip and not from any ‘real’ basis.
They are also including some info on Dark Sun - well Athas.org has already published the “Official” 3.5 rules for that campaign setting.
Athas.org and Birthright.net were given “permisision” from Wizards a long time ago to publish “official” material for the Dark Sun and Birthright settings.
Piazo has had a tendancy to make things that are not OGL when they publish them. I am greatly afraid that this will turn into one of those issues.
I’ve just finished putting together the 3.5 update of Chap 2 and posted it for development team discussion (basically to make sure that I didn’t overly mess anything up) prior to posting for general discussion. I would really like to post it before issue 315 hits the street in order to avoid any potential ‘legal’ mumbo-jumbo that may arrise.
The development team specifically sent Rich Baker a copy of the BRCS prior to posting it for general discussion asking for any input. Basically he said he didn’t have the time, but if he ever found any he’d look it over and that basically the setting was ours, the fans.
Personnaly I think just posting blood abilities and making them independent of blood score or not even talking about them together does the entire concept a disservice. Now Rich Baker had previously said that if he were to write the blood ability info for 3.0 he would use a feat-based approach - this may be where Piazo is coming from but I haven’t a clue and won’t know until I see what they’ve put together. It really should be just another option that can be used, one of those stand-alone articles that can be dropped into a campaign setting if desired. That’s why I hate the “Official” label on something that is not capturing the entirety of the setting or the the effect. Bloodlines have more to do with them than just having blood abilites.
Gary brought up the issue as to whether or not the BRCS will adopt it since it is supposed to be official - well that will depend on how it is handled. If it is not OGL, then we can’t do a thing with it except reference the Magazine (and force everyone to buy it in order to use), if it is OGL then more options open up.
OK, I’ve vented for now. Let’s see what the article looks like and what kind of restrictions on its use are implemented before we set fire to Piazo. I’m still progressing down the path that was chosen (by the fans a while ago via the polls on Blood Score).
Well, this could be an option, but it is ill thought, in my opinion, putting aside all other matters: how many blood abilities, for example, would one have? Up to 8, maximum? <_<
On Wed, 10 Dec 2003, RaspK_FOG wrote:
> Well, this could be an option, but it is ill thought, in my opinion,
> putting aside all other matters: how many blood abilities, for example,
> would one have? Up to 8, maximum? <_<
If its all bought by feats, then as a human, youd spend your 1st level
feat on a minor bloodline, then you could spend your 1st level human feat,
your 3,6,9,12,15, and 18th level feats on abilities, so seven.
Need to check the game store again for the magazine, but they probably
won`t have it until next week. Bah.
–
Daniel McSorley
OK, I’ve got Dragon #315 right here, and I’m NOT impressed.
It seems to me to be a half-assed attempt to bring Birthright into 3.5E. Here’s why:
The system for bloodline abilities, as feats, is not really well explained. You buy a feat (Bloodline) to become blooded. OK, fine. You get a bloodline score of 1. You can increase your bloodline score by doing heroic events, such as slaying a dragon to save a village, but not just to slay it (which isn’t heroic enough - clearly they never fought a Cerelian dragon). But the bloodline scores are barely mentioned in the write-up: if your bloodline goes to 11, then it becomes minor; 31 points for major; 51 points for great.
If you want to strengthen your bloodline the cheesy way, you buy a feat called Strengthen Bloodline, which gives you +10 bloodline points. Presto!
So any 4th level fighter, with all his free feats, can be a great bloodline. Genius!
If you want bloodline abilities, you have to buy them as feats. Well, your first bloodline ability is a free bonus feat when you buy Bloodline, but the rest of the powers are purchased feats. You can buy as many bloodlines as you want, provided you use feats for them. Not such a bad idea, really. Best one of the article.
Blood abilities are based on your bloodline strength. They only give Alter Appearance, Animal Affinity, Battlewise, Character Reading, Direction Sense, and Fear. Each one has a different effect based on bloodline level, minor through great (tainted lines get nothing).
And the final thing I wonder about is the reversion to killing blow through the heart to bloodtheft. It specifically says “This can only be done as a coup de grace action.” A killer with a lower bloodline gets d6 bloodline points, a killer with higher gets 1 bloodline point. And regardless of strength, the killer picks up one of the victim’s bloodline abilities for free, provided the ability can be used by the killer’s derivation.
OK, sorry for the disjointed rant style. I thought I’d let everyone know what the article says. If I’m unclear, please ask for clarification.
Originally posted by Benjamin@Dec 11 2003, 11:25 AM
[b] OK, I’ve got Dragon #315 right here, and I’m NOT impressed.
OK, sorry for the disjointed rant style. I thought I’d let everyone know what the article says. If I’m unclear, please ask for clarification. [/b]
Thanks for the synopsis. Is it OGL or not?
I`m a long-time subscriber, but I seem to get my copies of Dragon up to a
couple weeks after other people. There`s probably a gamer at my local post
office who intercepts my issues, so they dont get delivered until hes
read `em first and carefully placed them back in the plastic…
At 05:25 PM 12/11/2003 +0100, Benjamin wrote:
If you want to strengthen your bloodline the cheesy way, you buy a feat
called Strengthen Bloodline, which gives you +10 bloodline points. Presto!
So any 4th level fighter, with all his free feats, can be a great
bloodline. Genius!
Strengthen Bloodline isn`t a bonus fighter feat, is it?
> Blood abilities are based on your bloodline strength. They only give
> Alter Appearance, Animal Affinity, Battlewise, Character Reading,
> Direction Sense, and Fear. Each one has a different effect based on
> bloodline level, minor through great (tainted lines get nothing).
Well, that does make bloodline strength much more significant… maybe even
somewhat top heavy since it becomes, in effect, a single “stat” that
modifies subsequent powers.
> And the final thing I wonder about is the reversion to killing blow
> through the heart to bloodtheft. It specifically says "This can
> only be done as a coup de grace action." A killer with a lower
> bloodline gets d6 bloodline points, a killer with higher gets 1 bloodline
> point. And regardless of strength, the killer picks up one of the
> victim`s bloodline abilities for free, provided the ability can be used
by the killer`s derivation.
Bloodtheft is a toughie. I don`t think anyone has presented a system of
commiting bloodtheft for D&D/D20 that really satisfies. A wonderfully
innovative system would have been welcome, but it`s not the kind of thing
that can be expected, so Im inclined to cut em a break on this one. The
d6/1 bloodline score issue is very similar to the original system–which
screams for a change IMO–but again I`m inclined to cut some slack on this
one since there`s still not IMO no one has presented particularly good way
of dealing with this aspect of bloodtheft either.
Did they address tighmaevril in the bloodtheft section?
Gary
Benjamin schrieb:
> This post was generated by the Birthright.net message forum.
> You can view the entire thread at:
> http://www.birthright.net/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=2&t=2130
>
> Benjamin wrote:
> OK, Ive got Dragon #315 right here, and Im NOT impressed.
> It seems to me to be a half-assed attempt to bring Birthright into 3.5E. Here`s why:
The system for bloodline abilities, as feats, is not really well explained. You buy a feat (Bloodline) to become blooded. OK, fine. You get a bloodline score of 1. You can increase your bloodline score by doing heroic events, such as slaying a dragon to save a village, but not just to slay it (which isn`t heroic enough - clearly they never fought a Cerelian dragon). But the bloodline scores are barely mentioned in the write-up: if your bloodline goes to 11, then it becomes minor; 31 points for major; 51 points for great.
> If you want to strengthen your bloodline the cheesy way, you buy a feat called Strengthen Bloodline, which gives you +10 bloodline points. Presto!
> So any 4th level fighter, with all his free feats, can be a great bloodline. Genius!
Only if the fighter feats may be spent for this bloodline feats -
normally fighter feats may be spent only on specific list of “fighter”
feats, not just on any feats. If not allowed then the fighter has only
his characterlevel feats and perhaps his human feat to buy this new
blood feats.
Did the article mention if it is allowed?
> If you want bloodline abilities, you have to buy them as feats. Well, your first bloodline
ability is a free bonus feat when you buy Bloodline, but the rest of the
powers are purchased
feats. You can buy as many bloodlines as you want, provided you use
feats for them. Not such
a bad idea, really. Best one of the article.
> Blood abilities are based on your bloodline strength. They only give Alter Appearance,
Animal Affinity, Battlewise, Character Reading, Direction Sense, and
Fear. Each one has a
different effect based on bloodline level, minor through great (tainted
lines get nothing).
> And the final thing I wonder about is the reversion to killing blow through the heart to
bloodtheft. It specifically says "This can only be done as a coup
de grace action."
A killer with a lower bloodline gets d6 bloodline points, a killer
with higher gets 1
bloodline point. And regardless of strength, the killer picks up one of
the victim`s bloodline
abilities for free, provided the ability can be used by the killer`s
derivation.
> OK, sorry for the disjointed rant style. I thought I`d let everyone know what the article
says.
If I`m unclear, please ask for clarification.
Mmmh, why would the Gorgon “harvest” bloodlines when he can slay ANY
minor scion and each time earn 1 point of bloodline strenght AND can add
a bloodability to his list if the slain scion had one fitting for the
Gorgons Azrai line?
I like the system of diminishing returns much better, which at some
point yields nothing if your bloodline strenght is too high above the
victims.
That at least explains the need to carefuly tend your enemies so that
they may raise their bloodlines to a point at which the Gorgon may
benefit from it…
bye
Michael
Originally posted by Benjamin@Dec 11 2003, 05:25 PM
[b] OK, I’ve got Dragon #315 right here, and I’m NOT impressed.
It seems to me to be a half-assed attempt to bring Birthright into 3.5E. Here’s why:
The system for bloodline abilities, as feats, is not really well explained. You buy a feat (Bloodline) to become blooded. OK, fine. You get a bloodline score of 1. You can increase your bloodline score by doing heroic events, such as slaying a dragon to save a village, but not just to slay it (which isn’t heroic enough - clearly they never fought a Cerelian dragon). But the bloodline scores are barely mentioned in the write-up: if your bloodline goes to 11, then it becomes minor; 31 points for major; 51 points for great.
If you want to strengthen your bloodline the cheesy way, you buy a feat called Strengthen Bloodline, which gives you +10 bloodline points. Presto!
So any 4th level fighter, with all his free feats, can be a great bloodline. Genius!
[/b]
Well, as Gary and Michael already said: Fighters normally can’t take those feats as bonus feats (if so it’s even worser). BUT: They can spend ALL level based feats on being blooded, so they still have a huge, unfair advantage!
If you want bloodline abilities, you have to buy them as feats. Well, your first bloodline ability is a free bonus feat when you buy Bloodline, but the rest of the powers are purchased feats. You can buy as many bloodlines as you want, provided you use feats for them. Not such a bad idea, really. Best one of the article.
You really think so? Pfff, one single blood ability and the rest buyed expensively with feats? Not a good idea, this would prefer fighters again! A more better idea would have been the original 2nd Ed system to roll abilities (or for free, whatever) after the bloodline strength is enhanced somehow (with feats or bloodtheft)…
Blood abilities are based on your bloodline strength. They only give Alter Appearance, Animal Affinity, Battlewise, Character Reading, Direction Sense, and Fear. Each one has a different effect based on bloodline level, minor through great (tainted lines get nothing).
OK. Sounds like they had no new idea here…
And the final thing I wonder about is the reversion to killing blow through the heart to bloodtheft. It specifically says “This can only be done as a coup de grace action.” A killer with a lower bloodline gets d6 bloodline points, a killer with higher gets 1 bloodline point. And regardless of strength, the killer picks up one of the victim’s bloodline abilities for free, provided the ability can be used by the killer’s derivation.
Oh great! Then the period of bloodtheft after Deismaar never ended and we have to rewrite the Cerilian history…
Generally, thanks for the quick and detailed information.
On Thu, 11 Dec 2003, Benjamin wrote:
> So any 4th level fighter, with all his free feats, can be a great
> bloodline. Genius!
I`d imagine the “strengthen bloodline” feat is not on the list of fighter
bonus feats.
Thanks for the details.
–
Daniel McSorley
----- Original Message -----
From: “Benjamin” <brnetboard@BIRTHRIGHT.NET>
Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2003 10:25 AM
> You can increase your bloodline score by doing heroic events, such as
> slaying a dragon to save a village, but not just to slay it (which
isn`t
> heroic enough - clearly they never fought a Cerelian dragon).
You should not get blood score just for being a combat machine, you should
get blood score for doing things that create political power, like saving a
village in a heroic fashion. The village becomes instantly committed, and
other villages will be favorably disposed. The key is the village, not the
dragon.
> So any 4th level fighter, with all his free feats, can be a great
bloodline. Genius!
Does it say that these blooded feats are to be included in the list of
fighter bonus feats? If not, fighters have just as much access to them as
anyone else.
Kenneth Gauck
At 05:27 PM 12/11/2003 -0600, Kenneth Gauck wrote:
>You should not get blood score just for being a combat machine, you should
>get blood score for doing things that create political power, like saving
>a village in a heroic fashion. The village becomes instantly committed,
>and other villages will be favorably disposed. The key is the village, not the
>dragon.
Even though I`d like to see more interaction between political and heroic
accomplishments in BR`s RP system, I still think scope of heroic actions
should play a part. Slaying a dragon (particularly a Cerilian one) is IMO
significant enough to warrant a bump, but the bump should be made more
significant based on the ramifications of the action. As in, +1 for the
dragon, +0 if slaying it saved a village, +1 if slaying it saved a town, +2
if slaying it saved a city, etc. It would fit better into the domain
level`s system of random event resolution/failure and seque into
translating adventure level results into the domain level in a way that
could be used to make adventures out of the domain level itself a la LotHK.
Gary
Originally posted by geeman@Dec 11 2003, 08:27 PM
[b] At 05:27 PM 12/11/2003 -0600, Kenneth Gauck wrote:
>You should not get blood score just for being a combat machine, you should
>get blood score for doing things that create political power, like saving
>a village in a heroic fashion. The village becomes instantly committed,
>and other villages will be favorably disposed. The key is the village, not the
>dragon.
Even though I`d like to see more interaction between political and heroic
accomplishments in BR`s RP system, I still think scope of heroic actions
should play a part. Slaying a dragon (particularly a Cerilian one) is IMO
significant enough to warrant a bump, but the bump should be made more
significant based on the ramifications of the action. As in, +1 for the
dragon, +0 if slaying it saved a village, +1 if slaying it saved a town, +2
if slaying it saved a city, etc. It would fit better into the domain
level`s system of random event resolution/failure and seque into
translating adventure level results into the domain level in a way that
could be used to make adventures out of the domain level itself a la LotHK.
Gary
[/b]
I have to agree with Kenneth here blood score reflects the tie to the land and the people that a scion has. Killing a dragon (even a Cerilian one) is an act of individual accomplishment. Doing it to save a village, etc., is something that makes a hero greater in the eyes of the people and hence should have some reflection in his ‘status’, which is essentially measured by blood score.
To expand on this - a character gains exp for killing (or defeating the obstacle) a dragon - this is a measure of individual accomplishment and doesn’t tie into blood score. Simply gaining levels doesn’t translate into an increase in blood score (except for the scion class levels in the revised BRCS Chap 2, but that is only 2 class levels any way so it doesn’t matter in the long run for this comparison).
Gary I do like the idea of scaling based on the ‘level’ of the heroic deed.
Without having read the article yet (I think we have the same RPGer mail handler Gary) it looks like they have made gaining blood abilities (and probably blood score) more character level based instead of action based - which IMO is very bad and destroys the epic feel of the setting. But again, I need to read the article for myself before I pass on my final opinion on it.
Either way publishing anything about Birthright in Dragon is very good publicity for the setting, I only wish they would have mentioned the websites for the settings so that more stimulation could be applied. Hey that’s where any substantial amount of ‘new’ material is going to come from anyway, its going to come from the fans.
At 11:11 AM 12/12/2003 +0100, irdeggman wrote:
>I have to agree with Kenneth here blood score reflects the tie to the land
>and the people that a scion has. Killing a dragon (even a Cerilian one)
>is an act of individual accomplishment. Doing it to save a village, etc.,
>is something that makes a hero greater in the eyes of the people and hence
>should have some reflection in his status, which is essentially measured
>by blood score.
>
> To expand on this - a character gains exp for killing (or defeating the
> obstacle) a dragon - this is a measure of individual accomplishment and
> doesnt tie into blood score. Simply gaining levels doesnt translate
> into an increase in blood score (except for the scion class levels in the
> revised BRCS Chap 2, but that is only 2 class levels any way so it
> doesn`t matter in the long run for this comparison).
Gary I do like the idea of scaling based on the
levelof the heroic deed.
My memory is a little hazy on this, but I can describe a slightly anecdotal
version of the story… IIRC it was in an Internet chat or
something… Anyway, many moons ago one of the original BR designers
(Baker, I think) was asked about the effect of a Cerilian dragon on a
battlefield using BR`s warcards. What would be its hits, melee value,
etc.? The designer half-jokingly/semi-seriously responded that a simple
table might better reflect the influence of a Cerilian dragon in a battleround.
d6 Result
1-5 Dragon destroys 1-3 companies.
6 Dragon gets bored and flies away.
My point is that a village doesn`t even really count at the domain level,
but the slaying of a dragon does. Villages don`t even raise to the domain
level by themselves. It takes dozens to equal population level 1 for a
province. Dragons in BR, however, are all by themselves a domain level
effect. Killing a dragon is such an epic and legendary act that it is
going to earn the slayer renown, influence, hero-worship, etc. It is, in
and of itself, something that is tied to the land and the people, whether
villagers are saved or not. Saving villagers in addition to slaying a
dragon (I havent had a chance to read the article yet, but Im assuming
the idea is used to express great accomplishments, not just dragon killing
alone) is all well and good but by itself the village is pretty small
potatoes when it comes to the issue of bloodline.
I think what they are getting at are some guidelines for reflecting the
political influence of individual achievement–which is pretty close to
what bloodline does. It bridges the adventure/character level with the
domain/realm level, so giving a bloodline bump for individual acts that
have an influence at the domain level–like killing a dragon–seems sensible.
It is the collective “kismet” of the population that characters get their
RP from, and a character who kills a dragon is going to get a lot of
attention–with or without actually saving peasants–and that should
warrant some kind of award at the bloodline level. There are a few
guidelines for how to handle this kind of thing in the original BR
materials. Other than the regency loss section of the RB for random
events, but also the BoR`s section on increasing bloodline strength says
that characters must accomplish heroic deeds as part of a process of
proving to the DM that he worthy of an increase. Since it seems like this
article has somewhat equated bloodline strength and bloodline score it
might be that kind of thing they were trying to present with the
concept–we`ll know more when we actually get to read the
article… Curse my postal carrier…
> Without having read the article yet (I think we have the same RPGer mail
> handler Gary) it looks like they have made gaining blood abilities (and
> probably blood score) more character level based instead of action based
> - which IMO is very bad and destroys the epic feel of the setting. But
> again, I need to read the article for myself before I pass on my final
> opinion on it.
It sounds like there might be one or two good ideas in the article. We`ll
see. But, hey, look at it this way, if its not terribly popular with the
BR community then at least there is no worry about whether it is OGL or
not, since it wont need to go into any 3e update.... Unless theres some
sort of “official” thing going on that I`m blissfully unaware of.
> Either way publishing anything about Birthright in Dragon is very good
> publicity for the setting, I only wish they would have mentioned the
> websites for the settings so that more stimulation could be applied. Hey
> thats where any substantial amount of new` material is going to come
from anyway, its going to come from the fans.
True. The more the merrier. Personally, I was surprised that the
Dungeoncraft article that Dragon published a while back didn`t get more
attention from the BR community even though it specifically mentioned
BR. It was only tangentially related to BR, but still…
The thing that hooked me on BR from the get go was the "Seeking
Bloodsilver" adventure in Dungeon. Lots of little nuances to that
adventure that I really enjoyed, and that I had always found lacking in
D&D, or in any RPG, frankly. In fact, it brought me back to gaming on the
whole after a hiatus of a few years… If it were up to me I`d see more
stuff like that in Dragon and Dungeon.
Gary
OK, to answer everyone’s questions, the Strengthen Bloodline feat is not listed as being a general feat, bonus feat, fighter bonusfeat, free feat or any other type of feat. It’s just a feat. So I would imagine, to correct myself from earlier, it can only be taken at normal feat levels, not as a fighter’s bonus feat. But that isn’t clear, which is another reason I don’t like the article - it feels like they cut a lot to fit it into a few pages. In fact, none of the feats are very clear as to where they fit in. The article does say they are not balanced with other feats of 3.5E, only with other bloodline feats. So now we are running two different feat systems??
Sorry, geeman, they don’t mention tighmaevril at all.
And I agree with the arguments that being a combat machine isn’t worthy of earning bloodline points. However, killing a cerilian dragon takes near god-like powers, and anyone able to do that, IMHO, ought to get a few points out of it! That was my only point with that comment.
At 02:30 PM 12/12/2003 +0100, Benjamin wrote:
> OK, to answer everyone`s questions, the Strengthen Bloodline feat is
not listed as being a general feat, bonus feat, fighter bonusfeat, free
feat or any other type of feat. It`s just a feat.
I should probably note that in standard 3e/3.5 there is no noble PC class,
and that the fighter was in the original 2e rules the class that most
province rulers took on, making it the default “noble” for the
setting. Making the feat one of the bonus fighter feats might make a
little sense in that it would allow the fighter class to continue that
role… It`s not the best justification in the world, but it should
probably be mentioned.
Sorry, geeman, they don`t mention tighmaevril at all.
Drat.
> And I agree with the arguments that being a combat machine isn`t worthy
> of earning bloodline points. However, killing a cerilian dragon takes
> near god-like powers, and anyone able to do that, IMHO, ought to get a
> few points out of it! That was my only point with that comment.
Yeah, it sounds like its not a particularly well fleshed out idea as
presented in the article, but I think it could turn into something useful.
Gary