I have also been meaning to start a list like this but haven’t had a chance with two small babies to take care of.
When I get a chance I will start up a Wiki.
Reading back and forth. I am having problems with deciding… as I read good arguments for leaving the humans with the floater and going for “culture” feats or making each subrace into a complete race and removing the vanilla floater as I have had the gnawing thought that forcing the floater into a stat and forcing a skill would make humans weaker because their strength is in them being versatile.
Leaving the floater in place and using culture feats does seem easier and could explain “subraces” born away from their own race but I am attempting at this point to make a new race for each subrace, more work for me but probably best. I am just trying to find which race to best balance them against.
As Kenneth pointed out that is true for “vanilla” campaigns but not so for a “setting” like BR.
If I were to run a 4th campain I would fix the scores for most NPC’s, but allow the floater for PC characters and some NPC’s… For example, Anuireans have a tendency towards wisdom, but some individuals have other strenghts…
Kenneth’s question on this one is accurate to gain a perpective.
Another one is what type of BR game do you play?
Is it FR with bloodlines and domain actions overlaid or do you run it as the original material laid out?
From historical posts there are a lot of people who do the former (FR with bloodlines and domain actions overlaid) and consider that “Birthright”.
Basically, IMO, they are confusing game mechanics with setting design.
Bloodlines and domain actions are game mechanics that could be exported if desired. They do not define the setting, they are however mechanics that showcase the setting design.
Untrue IMO, but nevermind. The main point is that a reduced flexibility needs to be compensated to avoid weakening the race with regards to game balance…we can’t have any of THAT!
We on this board have that effect on people. There are always great opinions and you get a good look at how different people run Birthright. It is a testament to a great campaign setting.
3rd edition humans had a bit of versatile with having a free feat at first level and 4th edition took it to the next level with stats points also.
- Switch them to a +4 stat race. Give them a fixed +2/+2 per region.
- For their bonus feat at first level limit it to feats that are regional based (created by us new) or feats in the players handbook that fits each region the best. For example …
Khanasi
Bonus feats choices: Armor prof (leather), Expanded Spellbook (wizard), Ritual Caster (wizard only), Skill Focus (Arcana, Diplomacy or History)
Then toss in some unique regional feats to the list. I am in a bit of a rush so my creative thinking isn’t working too well. Will try to come up with some later.
The rest can remain the same. Now my set up isn’t perfect and probably not quite balanced yet … this is just to give you an idea of what I am thinking.
-BB
I’m also converting BR into 4th ed at the moment, and just gave my players the racial fixed +2 in addition to the floater. (But no stacking the fixed + floater.)
Since all my players are Human, I didn’t feel the need to balance out the fact that this technically overpowers humans compared to the other races.
(And also, since I’ve always felt BR was a Human-centric game, I don’t really mind players feeling a mechanical encouragement to play them.)
If I were writing my conversion for publication and decided I didn’t want that mechanical encouragement, I would remove the human bonus feat to compensate, and replace it with +2 to 2 skills dependent on race.
Anuirean: Insight / Diplomacy
Brecht: Streetwise / Diplomacy
Khinasi: Arcana / History
Rjurik: Nature / Perception
Vos: Nature / Intimidate
At one time I suggested giving a bonus feat to humans (from a list of cultural specific ones) in order to adjust for the fixed ability bonus.
But it should also be noted that in 4th ed ability score adjustments at 1st level have a much lesser effect than it did in 3.5 and much less than 2nd ed. This is because of how frequently (and how much) the ability score “increases” are in the leveling up process.
It is also true that every race invented from here on out will be given +2 to two fixed ability scores, and a set of distinct special abilities, instead of the human bonus feat, bonus skill, bonus power, and unlimited +1 save bonus. If every race other than human can be constructed this way, why not BR humans as well?
I am not sure about the “every race from now on will be given +2 to two fixed ability scores” though. I wouldn’t place a bet on that pattern being followed for very long, based on WotC history of adaptation.
The rest is very true - it is all a “complete package” and should be treated as such. They should have somethings that give “synergy” to abilities that are tied to the race - that seems to be the essential part of the core rules on races (which is mostly missing from the “vanilla” humans due to their emphasis on adaptation and not on racial focus (which is more in line with the original BR material - that is racial focus).
That’s true, we might see a +4 in one ability for some races in future. What I really meant was that we won’t see the versatile human again, because its not necessary for balance. There are other ways to make a balanced race.
Point taken.
posted the first attempt at the Anuireans as well as the reason I designed them the way I did.
Why Str and not Cha?
To logic seems week to me for a race with a lot of diplomatic skill to not have their ability bonus reflect that.
If you want to keep it with one physical attribute and one mental attribute then replace Wisdom with Charisma. Out of the three physical attributes none fit perfectly for Aunurians but Strength would probably be the best.
So there is my vote. +2 Charisma and +2 Strength.
-BB
Anuireans had a bonus to Wis in the original material. They are also quite religious and cleric should be a good fit for Anuirean characters. Keep Wis.
For physical, go with Str.
For Anuireans, I prefer
Ability Scores +2 Wisdom, +2 Charisma
Skill Bonuses: +2 Diplomacy, +2 Insight
I wonder are people looking at Anuireans and deciding what bonuses that the Anuireans should get, or are they picking a set of classes, and then selecting the bonuses that are good for those classes?
I didn’t realize in the original material that Anuireans had wisdom as a bonus. I stand corrected there.
If it if acceptable to have two non-physical stats then Wisdom and Charisma might be the way to go.
-BB
There is no reason Anuireans as a culture should have Strength as a racial modifier.
If you’re proving both stats for each Human race (though I’d still prefer one a floater), I’d give them each:
Anuirean - Wis/Cha ~~~ Insight / Diplomacy
Brecht - Dex/Cha ~~~ Streetwise / Diplomacy
Khinasi - Int/Wis(?) ~~~ Arcana / History
Rjurk - Con/Wis ~~~ Nature / Perception
Vos - Str/Con ~~~ Nature / Intimidate
Anuirean are good at diplomacy, yes; But according to all the material they are excel as a war-like race with Knights and Fighters aplenty. There is no indication that they should have bonuses to CHA except in a case where they used diplomacy to conquer instead of their armies which they apparently did quite abit more. The +2 “CHA” only comes out to a +1 to diplomacy but it also adds to alot of other skills so them being adapt at diplomacy is better shown with the +2 diplomacy skill. Also their knowledge of diplomacy and history is also suited to granting their ‘groups’ a bonus to diplomacy in a very “Don’t say something like this to the Regent” or “This Regent had been a great warrior in his prime so treat him with the respect of a warrior.” etc. It seems that alot of people want to overlook the fact that the Anuirean are warriors and worshippers of a Warrior God over diplomats.
The Anuireans were once the overlords of nearly the entire continent. Following the lead of Emperor Roele, they dominated the other cultures of the land, and it seemed certain that they would be the ones to bring the disparate bloodlines together and unite the land forever. However, the death of Michael Roele (the last ruler of a 1,000-year dynasty) changed all of that. The Anuireans as a whole are now no more and no less powerful as the other peoples of Cerilia.
Still, the Anuireans have the advantage over their comrades, in that they have the lushest part of Cerilia to work from. The weather is temperate, the fields yield a bountiful harvest, and there’s a plentiful supply of goods coming through the former capital of the Empire. It’s no wonder that the Anuireans were able to dominate Cerilia for centuries.
Anuirean leaders are usually warriors, or at least cultivate a warlike aspect. After all, the chief god of Anuire is Haelyn, the god of war. Also, every Anuirean ruler knows that Roele established his Empire by taking over one kingdom at a time, and every regent thinks she can duplicate the feat. This means that the Anuireans’ advantage over the neighboring cultures is wasted because the small kings spend their time squabbling among each other.
Anuirean cultural traits: The Anuireans are a stubborn, proud, and warlike people who respect social order and take great pains to maintain a demeanor appropriate to their rank and duties. Reserved and formal, Anuireans are sensitive to even slight changes in body language and mannerisms. Furthermore, the dealings and alliances of noble families are favored topics of continuous discussion throughout Anuirean
lands.
There is nothing within the above that suggests a single bonus to CHA. They are are warlike people, their regents are warriors, they follow the god of war, and the old empire conquered most domains and thus STR is the best fit for them as a warrior people.
Soldiers and diplomats are the same people. Its not either/or, but rather both/and. Plus CHA is the skill for governing. Vos fight a lot. The Anuireans built and maintained an empire. And it wasn’t a lot of fighting. They mostly showed up, fought a battle or two and then negotiated terms of Imperial suzerainty.
And there is no skill for warcraft. Plus their patron is not just god of war, but also justice, law, and rulership. This is a god, and a culture that rules, not just conquers. They need the skills for that.
I read that block quote and reply that none of that would have been possible without charismatic leaders, and charismatic subordinates to deal with the day to day affairs. I would drop WIS before I dropped CHA.
CHA is a skill for making people do what you want. I would most definitely argue against it being a skill of “Governing” as it maybe a skill to get people to do things you want them to do in a way you want them to do but to actually plan out the logistics of something would most definitely fall in the realm of wis or int.