Mehigible and the Seas

Dungeons & Dragons MPGN Mailinglist archive 1996-1999
1

Okay, the gods blew up over Deismar and spread thier essence throughout
the land.

But why does Anuire, near Desimar, have equal scource to Vossgard (far
from Desimar)? If it spread evenly that would also mean Anduria has
scource, but it is unttaped…

Which leads to my next question…

Wouldn’t some of the god’s divine might land in the seas? Did it “sink”
to the bottom or did it say in the water? Could this power be tapped by
a resourceful wizard?

BTW-I am a DM and not a player so don’t tell me to consult my DM. I was
looking for ideas that I might apply to my next BR campaign.

2

In a message dated 98-06-08 15:46:44 EDT, you write:

> But why does Anuire, near Desimar, have equal scource to Vossgard (far
> from Desimar)? If it spread evenly that would also mean Anduria has
> scource, but it is unttaped…

Magical Source was not given to the land by the death of the gods, only the
bloodlines were. I has been noted in several PS timelines and the BoM that
old ley lines from ancient sources did exist (and some still do!) before
Deismaar.

Perhaps instead you refer to bloodlines? Well, generally speaking the
bloodline imbued only the survivors of the battle with the divine power, not
the whole continent. Although the BoM speaks of special stones with the
essence of gods in them, these have no effect or power whatsoever outside of
contact with certain blooded individuals. Thus, you can see the divine
essense was largely confined to the battlefield around Desimaar.

>
> Which leads to my next question…
>
> Wouldn’t some of the god’s divine might land in the seas? Did it “sink”
> to the bottom or did it say in the water? Could this power be tapped by
> a resourceful wizard?
>

Apparently, the divine power released at the time of the Destruction did
nothing for non-humanoids. Aside from possible legends which will vary from
campaign to campaign, there are no records of any animals absorbing divine
essense at Deismaar. The land is likely to have absorbed the essense of the
dead gods where there was no humanoid vessel. Note that this divine power is
NOT magical Source power!

There are examples of creatures later devouring blooded individuals and then
gaining the blood power which explains the Boar of Thuringode, the Kraken, the
Leviathan, etc.

  • -DKE
3

The Olesen’s wrote:

> Okay, the gods blew up over Deismar and spread thier essence throughout
> the land.
>
> But why does Anuire, near Desimar, have equal scource to Vossgard (far
> from Desimar)? If it spread evenly that would also mean Anduria has
> scource, but it is unttaped…

My take on this is that Deismaar didn’t actually imbue the land itself with
magical power. That power was already there. In fact, that power might very
well be in all lands of every campaign setting. The difference between the BR
setting and that of all other campaign worlds is that after Deismaar, the power
of the gods entered certain people, giving them the ability to tap into the
power of the land.

If you go with this interpretation, it means that Aduria does have an equal
number of sources as Cerilia. In fact, probably more as I believe it is a
bigger continent. All that Cerilia has over Aduria is the proximity of blooded
individuals.

Personally, I’m getting the feeling that the next version of the AD&D core
rules is going to reflect this to some extent. I suspect there are going to be
some very BR-like rules for characters who come to dominate the lands in
whatever campaign setting they are in.

> Which leads to my next question…
>
> Wouldn’t some of the god’s divine might land in the seas? Did it “sink”
> to the bottom or did it say in the water? Could this power be tapped by
> a resourceful wizard?

Didn’t somebody come up with underwater sources and such a while back on this
list? I think it was just before I subscribed as I don’t remember reading it,
but I do remember comments made on the original post…

  • -Gary
4

On Mon, 08 Jun 1998 15:13:43 -0400 “The Olesen’s”
writes:
>Okay, the gods blew up over Deismar and spread thier essence
>throughout
>the land.
>
>But why does Anuire, near Desimar, have equal scource to Vossgard (far
>from Desimar)? If it spread evenly that would also mean Anduria has
>scource, but it is unttaped…

For one thing, the sources aren’t relics of the gods or their essence,
but a natural power of the land that was around even before Deismaar
(elven and ancient ley lines existed before Deismaar).

Aduria may be tapped, and no one realizes it. Or maybe the number of
blooded individuals in Aduria is so low, that there aren’t enough wizards
around to tap all those sources.

>
>Which leads to my next question…
>
>Wouldn’t some of the god’s divine might land in the seas? Did it
>“sink”
>to the bottom or did it say in the water? Could this power be tapped
>by
>a resourceful wizard?

Well, it could have, but oceans being as they are, it has been so
thoroughly mixed over the intervening centuries with the rest of the
water in the world that now it is has negligible concentrations.
However, source power isn’t essence of the gods - bloodlines are. If you
wanted to allow resourceful wizards to tap the ocean for sources, go
ahead. The rules say that coastal provinces are supposed to have a
higher source potential, so you could extrapolate that to mean the oceans
are also sources.

>
>BTW-I am a DM and not a player so don’t tell me to consult my DM. I
>was
>looking for ideas that I might apply to my next BR campaign.

Well, then, you have it easiest! Just make a decision, and presto
whammo! It is! :wink:

Benjamin

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5

Okay, Alright Already!!

I forgot that magical source power was pre-desimar(elves!).

But that means there is source in other continents, right?

Also is thier megible in water (or on the seabed)?

6

In answer to both your questions, the magic that is tapped by wizards when they
have sources is not the residual essence of the dead gods. It was in the land
of Cerilia long before Deismaar. The rain of divine essence that was absorbed
by those who survived Deismaar allows them, if they are so inclined (i.e.
wizards), to tap into the magic of the land.

Brian

The Olesen’s wrote:

> Okay, the gods blew up over Deismar and spread thier essence throughout
> the land.
>
> But why does Anuire, near Desimar, have equal scource to Vossgard (far
> from Desimar)? If it spread evenly that would also mean Anduria has
> scource, but it is unttaped…
>
> Which leads to my next question…
>
> Wouldn’t some of the god’s divine might land in the seas? Did it “sink”
> to the bottom or did it say in the water? Could this power be tapped by
> a resourceful wizard?

7

If thier are underwater source holdings, who better to use them than,
you guessed it, Sea Elves!

They can be mages in BR w/o blood (that is divine blood). Who knows,
maybee thier is an underwater kingdom of elves in CErillia…

An interesting campaign idea…

8

On Mon, 08 Jun 1998 18:00:21 -0400 “The Olesen’s”
writes:
>Okay, Alright Already!!
>
>I forgot that magical source power was pre-desimar(elves!).
>
>But that means there is source in other continents, right?

Absolutely. Any where a wizard goes, s/he can tap sources.

>
>Also is thier megible in water (or on the seabed)?
There could be. As I said, coastal provinces are supposed to have a
higher source level than non-coastal provinces of the same type. If you
want seabeds to have sources, then go ahead and allow it. But remember
ley lines can only go 150 miles over water before collapsing, so maybe
only the near sea provinces have sources.

Benjamin

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9

The Olesen’s wrote:
>
> Okay, the gods blew up over Deismar and spread thier essence throughout
> the land.
>
> But why does Anuire, near Desimar, have equal scource to Vossgard (far
> from Desimar)? If it spread evenly that would also mean Anduria has
> scource, but it is unttaped…
>
> Which leads to my next question…
>
> Wouldn’t some of the god’s divine might land in the seas? Did it “sink”
> to the bottom or did it say in the water? Could this power be tapped by
> a resourceful wizard?
>
> BTW-I am a DM and not a player so don’t tell me to consult my DM. I was
> looking for ideas that I might apply to my next BR campaign.
>

You seem to have misunderstood something. The mebhaigl has always been
there. Deismaar created the bloodlines which enable wizards to use the
mebhaigl.

"Preemptive Retribution"

Rasmus Juul Wagner
Technical University of Denmark
c958650@student.dtu.dk
www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Stadium/7859
10

On Mon, 8 Jun 1998, The Olesen’s wrote:

> If thier are underwater source holdings, who better to use them than,
> you guessed it, Sea Elves!
>
> They can be mages in BR w/o blood (that is divine blood). Who knows,
> maybee thier is an underwater kingdom of elves in CErillia…
>
> An interesting campaign idea…

I’ve toyed around with that idea, but never used it because my PC’s have
shown an annoying tendency to remain on dry land. But I agree that its a
cool idea. I while back someone with some background in marine biology
posted suggestions for underwater sources based on the “life” that lives
in them. Thus shores will have higher sources than deeper waters, and
shores with rare kelp forests will have higher sources than rocky shores,
and extremely rare deep-water upwelling zones will have higher scores as
well. Shores with ports on the land will have lower sources due to
pollution. Those next to swamps on the land may have slightly higher
(maybe +1) sources as well. If you decide to use it, tell us how it goes,
I would be interested in hearing about it.

Mark VanderMeulen
vander+@pitt.edu

> ***************************************************************************
> > ‘unsubscribe birthright’ as the body of the message.
>

11

Benjamin W Loebick wrote:

> Aduria may be tapped, and no one realizes it. Or maybe the number of
> blooded individuals in Aduria is so low, that there aren’t enough wizards
> around to tap all those sources.
>
In the realms I am creating for Aduria there are a few mages in the
nothern empires, and only two or three in the south. The ones in the
south are ancient and powerful though. Most of the sources remain
untapped, especially inside the big empires.

Ian Hoskins

e-Mail: hoss@box.net.au
Homepage: http://darkstar.cyberserv.com
ICQ: 2938300

12

Gary V. Foss wrote:

> Didn’t somebody come up with underwater sources and such a while back on this
> list? I think it was just before I subscribed as I don’t remember reading it,
> but I do remember comments made on the original post…
>
I believe that info can be found on my page, probably anyway.
Go to http://darkstar.cyberserv.com and check out the netbook section.
The info will be in there somewhere.

Ian Hoskins

e-Mail: hoss@box.net.au
Homepage: http://darkstar.cyberserv.com
ICQ: 2938300

13

Mark A Vandermeulen wrote:
>
> On Mon, 8 Jun 1998, The Olesen’s wrote:
>
> > If thier are underwater source holdings, who better to use them than,
> > you guessed it, Sea Elves!
> >
> > They can be mages in BR w/o blood (that is divine blood). Who knows,
> > maybee thier is an underwater kingdom of elves in CErillia…
> >
> > An interesting campaign idea…
>
> I’ve toyed around with that idea, but never used it because my PC’s have
> shown an annoying tendency to remain on dry land. But I agree that its a
> cool idea. I while back someone with some background in marine biology
> posted suggestions for underwater sources based on the “life” that lives
> in them. Thus shores will have higher sources than deeper waters, and
> shores with rare kelp forests will have higher sources than rocky shores,
> and extremely rare deep-water upwelling zones will have higher scores as
> well. Shores with ports on the land will have lower sources due to
> pollution. Those next to swamps on the land may have slightly higher
> (maybe +1) sources as well.

Also those underwater faults and volcanos.
Not to metion those “smokestack” things people say life may have
originated from.

14

In a message dated 98-06-09 09:39:25 EDT, you write:

you guessed it, Sea Elves! >>

 I would personally hate to see sea elves develop.  I think they were

somewhat overdone in Dragonlance, but that may have been where their calling
was. Off-hand, I don’t recall another campaign setting that uses them that
all the players would know of the sea elves (I’m not familiar enough with FR
to know if they do or do not), but I don’t recall them in Greyhawk or
Planescape. I know they are not in Ravenloft and Dark Sun is right out. If
we used sea elves, how “medieval” would they be? I don’t see them as needing
castles per se, but domes should be hard to build underwater. Also, if they
do exist, who is their racial enemy? Kuo-toa? Sauhgin? Crabmen? There
would have to be enough of an enemy so the elves wouldn’t have a monopoly in
the oceans. Granted the Krakken, Leviathan and Sea Drake would eat them up
yum, as if they were fish-heads, but the PCs wouldn’t stand a chance against
any of them. To make the fighting arena equal, you’d have to helms of
underwater breathing, rings of free action, etc and then you’ve just upped the
magic quantity level.
As far as the “land” or body of water is concerned, how would you divide
them up into provinces? Would you just do by water body type or by depth?
Would the land/source values matter since you couldn’t build any holdings in
the water (no new holdings “dock,” “port,” or “peir” please) What exactly
would consist of a realm spell and would you really want a whole bunch of new
water-based spells coming your way when in an armada? If two navies fought,
the first one to cast “Tsunami” would probably win, unless the other cast
“Whirlpool” first and then they mutually destroyed themselves. That would
just suck spoiled bananas. Well, in my opinion, at least.

Take care all,
Kirby (wet behind the ears)

15

On Wed, 10 Jun 1998 03:43:29 EDT KirbyRanma@aol.com writes:
> I would personally hate to see sea elves develop. I think they
>were
>somewhat overdone in Dragonlance, but that may have been where their
>calling
>was.

Three cheers for that! I like elves a lot, but far too often sea elves
were played with all the advantages, non of the disadvantages.

>Off-hand, I don’t recall another campaign setting that uses them
>that
>all the players would know of the sea elves (I’m not familiar enough
>with FR
>to know if they do or do not), but I don’t recall them in Greyhawk or
>Planescape. I know they are not in Ravenloft and Dark Sun is right
>out. If
>we used sea elves, how “medieval” would they be? I don’t see them as
>needing
>castles per se, but domes should be hard to build underwater.

Actually, it would be easier underwater for construction, because of
bouyancy and the ability to swim materials to where you wanted them
instead of flying or cranes.

> Also,
>if they
>do exist, who is their racial enemy? Kuo-toa? Sauhgin? Crabmen?

Sauhgin already exist in BR, as stated somewhere… but I understood them
to be a minor race that was reclusive, not some great terror of an enemy
keeping down another population.

>There
>would have to be enough of an enemy so the elves wouldn’t have a
>monopoly in
>the oceans. Granted the Krakken, Leviathan and Sea Drake would eat
>them up
>yum, as if they were fish-heads, but the PCs wouldn’t stand a chance
>against
>any of them. To make the fighting arena equal, you’d have to helms
>of
>underwater breathing, rings of free action, etc and then you’ve just
>upped the
>magic quantity level.
> As far as the “land” or body of water is concerned, how would you
>divide
>them up into provinces? Would you just do by water body type or by
>depth?

I would probably use the sea provinces listed for naval movement. Yeah,
they are often larger than a normal province, but then you could say it
requires more seabed to collect sufficient mebhaighl for sources.

>Would the land/source values matter since you couldn’t build any
>holdings in
>the water (no new holdings “dock,” “port,” or “peir” please)

I’d say no land holdings allowed. However, the sea sources could be
corrupted by dumping of trash, pollution from nearby seaports, etc.
Maybe a great naval battle sends down 40 ships with their crews. That
might adversely affect the sources as well. That way you could keep the
PC’s sources in constant flux, and give them challenges to protect their
power base.

> What
>exactly
>would consist of a realm spell and would you really want a whole bunch
>of new
>water-based spells coming your way when in an armada? If two navies
>fought,
>the first one to cast “Tsunami” would probably win, unless the other
>cast
>“Whirlpool” first and then they mutually destroyed themselves. That
>would
>just suck spoiled bananas. Well, in my opinion, at least.
>
>Take care all,
>Kirby (wet behind the ears)

Yeah… those sound like typical realm spells. But they would only
affect 1 combat square adjacent to the caster!!! joke

Other realm spells would be Violent Storms, Churning Water, Bad Winds,
Becalmed, Call Shark Hordes, Repel Huge Gigantic Monstrous Ugly
Awnsheghlien Beasts of Terror From My Sea Province, and maybe Good
Fishing for Little Johnny and Sue. :wink:

Benjamin

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