OCP- Map

Dungeons & Dragons MPGN Mailinglist archive 1996-1999
1

On Mon, 23 Mar 1998 13:22:06 +0100 Manfred V=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=f6lk?=
writes:
>Hi folks
>
>I saw the map of the City of Anuire and here are my thoughts about it:
>(I refere to the map codes provided on darkstar’s homepage)
>
>1) I think the City is big enough to fill it with our stuff. Goood!
>
>2) If I were Imperor of Anuire I would add several features to my city
>
>FIRST.
>
> - The city walls on both Shores will be extended so the uppermost
>
> points form a line with the last isle in the river (here, S7).
> Then a castle on this isle should guard the river, several
> facilities ensure that the river may be blocked in case of
> emergency.

Yes, this makes great sense. Many old cities of Europe had similar
situations for defense.

>
> - Several of the seaward isles should be occupied with
>fortresses.
> (e.g. B7, B5 and F3)
> A fortress should guard the harbour entrance as well. (B1 or
>AVS)

Yes, probably, but also don’t forget that this was the heart of the
empire. The Imperial Legion is stationed here, so one big fortress is
really all that is needed. Anyone brave enough to attack the city is
going to face a whole lot of opposition from a suddenly semi-unified
Anuire, not to mention a really mad College of Sorcery. Thus maybe only
1 or 2 fortresses are required.

>
> - Non-harbour waters should be blocked by several obstacles and
>towers
> to prevent greater ships from reaching the city that way. even
>rasing a
> barrier is an option

I imagine that most of the passages between the islands are either so
shallow or clogged with small boat traffic to prevent large ships from
moving through.

>
> - A lot more bridges should connect the isles to the shore. A
>single
> assault on the only bridge (AVS-S1) cuts off the main part of the
>city
> from any help. Even the ferry is interrupted without any problems

True, except that the Imperial Legion is posted right by this bridge on
the land side. I imagine this is a large, magically reinforced stone
bridge, too, so that helps prevent its destruction.

> - Assuming, that the City grew over the years, I wonder, why
>people
> did not raise the space between a couple of islands (e.g. H3, H4,
>H5).

The islands shown are the results of filling in land between small
islands. Each of the islands are actually a hodgepodge collection of a
multitude of smaller islands. Lots of little passages and canals run
through these islands, making it look kind of like Amsterdam or Venice.

>
>3) A few other points concerning the map codes
>
> - most of the guild activities are situated on the shores as land
>prices
> are lower and transport is easier.

Yes, this would be true, although headquarters may be on the islands to
be ‘vogue’.

>
> - Guilds may enforce the construction of a bridge to the DMS
>because
> this would ease trade with Diemed.
>

That would be one HECK of a span. Close to 1 mile in length!! It would
take a LOT of magic to make that happen. Physically speaking, even
modern engineering has a difficulty building something that big with a
single span, and the river is quite deep. The technology available in BR
might make it impossible.

>
>Hmmmm, ey folks, what do you think about this?
>Manni
>

Benjamin

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2

Okay, time for my thoughts. Please don’t take these as those of the project

    • they are exactly what I said - MY thoughts.

>1) I think the City is big enough to fill it with our stuff. Goood!

As a side note, you will also notice that it is very easu to expand the
city (eg, add another island, increase the size/population of anything) and
change the city as well.

>2) If I were Imperor of Anuire I would add several features to my city
>FIRST.
> - The city walls on both Shores will be extended so the uppermost
> points form a line with the last isle in the river (here, S7).
> Then a castle on this isle should guard the river, several
> facilities ensure that the river may be blocked in case of
> emergency.

hmm…okay, from an engineering point, what this essentially means is
damming the Maesil River (which could be compared to the big one which is
being done in China at the moment - can’t remember the name of it). If we
assume that the depth is, say, 10m (which I think is very conservative), we
are talking about walls which would have to be a good few metres (if not
much more) wide at the bottom. That is a hell of a lot of stone. Remember
we are talking a river that is at least a mile or so wide. One of the ideas
we had was that the majority of the river is shallow (say 5-10m), with a
single deep channel where the larger ships can pass through. That way, any
large merchant vessels, pirate ships, invading fleets would have to pass
by the city through this channel, as the ships would run aground elsewhere.
Smaller vessels would be free to travel where they wish.

> - Several of the seaward isles should be occupied with fortresses.
> (e.g. B7, B5 and F3)
> A fortress should guard the harbour entrance as well. (B1 or AVS)

The seaward isles would have some military presence, but I am unsure
whether a fortress is too much. The Imperial Guard/Navy were to be housed
on their own (separate?) islands, which are not marked on the map. One of
these is likely to be out in the bay, to provide protection and allow full
access. I don’t really know about this to be honest. This stuff was just
some ideas. The harbour entrance will definitely be guarded, though what
shape this takes I don’t know. In fact, this is the first project of the
Military/Defence group, so if you have any ideas, send them in to the SC
member.

> - Non-harbour waters should be blocked by several obstacles and
>towers
> to prevent greater ships from reaching the city that way. even
>rasing a
> barrier is an option

again, using the above idea, the only place in the city where large ships
can actually dock is the Imperial (deep-water) Harbour. In other places,
the river bed is too shallow, and large ships will run aground. I guess
this is a sort of ‘natural defence’. In addition, no large ships can pass
under the various bridges, so there is no way of getting to the Imperial
Island without going accross the other islands.

> - A lot more bridges should connect the isles to the shore. A single
> assault on the only bridge (AVS-S1) cuts off the main part of the
>city
> from any help. Even the ferry is interrupted without any problems

Well, the main bridge (marked in red on the map), or causeway, is a major
construction, at least wide enough that a horse and cart could pass side by
side (envisage the bridge entrance in one of the Asterix comics - The
Golden Sickle I think. Can’t remember the city name). As Benjamin pointed
out, there are guard barracks on the shore, as well as on the islands. I
guess this bridge is a bit of a weak point in the city’s defences, but
remember that for a large ship to get there, it must go through the Harbour
(it would run aground if it approached from Upriver). I would imagine that
the bridge is solid enough that it cannot be disabled by a ramming action
(at least not a magically aided on, anyway). It is definitely solid enough
to withstand any bad weather.

> - Assuming, that the City grew over the years, I wonder, why people
> did not raise the space between a couple of islands (e.g. H3, H4,
>H5).

well, the ‘islands’ themselves are assumed to be a conglomerate of smaller
island, some of which may still be separate, some of which have already
been filled in.

>3) A few other points concerning the map codes
> - most of the guild activities are situated on the shores as land
>prices
> are lower and transport is easier.

most major trade would be done by sea, not land, IMO. The harbour itself is
mostly on the islands, rather than the shore. As stated above, the shore is
really meant for smaller boats, whereas the harbour islands are where the
larger ships can dock.

> - Guilds may enforce the construction of a bridge to the DMS because
> this would ease trade with Diemed.

again, a massive effort - a mile long bridge. Consider some of the major
bridges around the world (eg. Sydney Harbour Bridge, Golden Gate). They are
all major constructions, and I would not expect BR technology to be able to
build anything like that.

comments/suggestions?

    Simon
3

Simon wrote:

>Okay, time for my thoughts. Please don’t take these as those of the project
>- they are exactly what I said - MY thoughts.

Agreed!
>
>>2) If I were Imperor of Anuire I would add several features to my city
>>FIRST.
>> - The city walls on both Shores will be extended so the uppermost
>> points form a line with the last isle in the river (here, S7).
>> Then a castle on this isle should guard the river, several
>> facilities ensure that the river may be blocked in case of
>> emergency.
>
>hmm…okay, from an engineering point, what this essentially means is
>damming the Maesil River (which could be compared to the big one which is
>being done in China at the moment - can’t remember the name of it). If we
>assume that the depth is, say, 10m (which I think is very conservative), we
>are talking about walls which would have to be a good few metres (if not
>much more) wide at the bottom. That is a hell of a lot of stone. Remember
>we are talking a river that is at least a mile or so wide. One of the ideas
>we had was that the majority of the river is shallow (say 5-10m), with a
>single deep channel where the larger ships can pass through. That way, any
>large merchant vessels, pirate ships, invading fleets would have to pass
>by the city through this channel, as the ships would run aground elsewhere.
>Smaller vessels would be free to travel where they wish.

Hmmm… remember that the regent of the City (regardless who) may want to
tax boats going up or coming down the river. All of his predecessors will
do their best to narrow the river at one point (perhaps up to one mile
upriver). So over the years this mighty construction may have taken
place. The rest of the river would be blocked by floating devices (heavy
trunks linked with chains)
Do not take me wrong, I do not want to push anyone. I agree, that such a
facility is a mere expensive task and I see, that the chamberlain has
better things to do than maintaining a monument like this…
So, how about a couple of ruins along the river shores… hey Mark, what
do you think about this? (I would volunteer to produce a few construction
plans)

>
>> - A lot more bridges should connect the isles to the shore. A single
>> assault on the only bridge (AVS-S1) cuts off the main part of the
>>city
>> from any help. Even the ferry is interrupted without any problems
>
>Well, the main bridge (marked in red on the map), or causeway, is a major
>construction, at least wide enough that a horse and cart could pass side by
>side (envisage the bridge entrance in one of the Asterix comics - The
>Golden Sickle I think. Can’t remember the city name).

Lutetia

>As Benjamin pointed
>out, there are guard barracks on the shore, as well as on the islands. I
>guess this bridge is a bit of a weak point in the city’s defences, but
>remember that for a large ship to get there, it must go through the Harbour
>(it would run aground if it approached from Upriver). I would imagine that
>the bridge is solid enough that it cannot be disabled by a ramming action
>(at least not a magically aided on, anyway). It is definitely solid enough
>to withstand any bad weather.

Er, bad weather disturbs ferry activity… Naaaa, I see your point,
constructing a kind of “fortified” bridge would solve this problem.
>
>> - Assuming, that the City grew over the years, I wonder, why people
>> did not raise the space between a couple of islands (e.g. H3, H4,
>>H5).
>
>well, the ‘islands’ themselves are assumed to be a conglomerate of smaller
>island, some of which may still be separate, some of which have already
>been filled in.

…and the filling process has just reached this level. Okay, that is an
argument I can live with. So looking at the City in about three thousand
years or so will reveal one island in the middle of the river.
>
>>3) A few other points concerning the map codes
>> - most of the guild activities are situated on the shores as land
>>prices
>> are lower and transport is easier.
>
>most major trade would be done by sea, not land, IMO. The harbour itself is
>mostly on the islands, rather than the shore. As stated above, the shore is
>really meant for smaller boats, whereas the harbour islands are where the
>larger ships can dock.

Okay, agreed!
>
>> - Guilds may enforce the construction of a bridge to the DMS because
>> this would ease trade with Diemed.
>
>again, a massive effort - a mile long bridge. Consider some of the major
>bridges around the world (eg. Sydney Harbour Bridge, Golden Gate). They are
>all major constructions, and I would not expect BR technology to be able to
>build anything like that.
>
I see, this is a good point… according to the high costs of such an
construction, this project may have never passed the planning status.

Now I feel much better…

Thanxx

Manni

±±±±±±±±±±±±±+
Need Warcards?
http://www.student.uni-augsburg.de/~voelkman/warcard.html

4

On Wed, 25 Mar 1998, Manfred V[ISO-8859-1] ölk wrote:

> Hmmm… remember that the regent of the City (regardless who) may want to
> tax boats going up or coming down the river. All of his predecessors will
> do their best to narrow the river at one point (perhaps up to one mile
> upriver). So over the years this mighty construction may have taken
> place. The rest of the river would be blocked by floating devices (heavy
> trunks linked with chains)
> Do not take me wrong, I do not want to push anyone. I agree, that such a
> facility is a mere expensive task and I see, that the chamberlain has
> better things to do than maintaining a monument like this…
> So, how about a couple of ruins along the river shores… hey Mark, what
> do you think about this? (I would volunteer to produce a few construction
> plans)

Not a bad idea, but this is how I would like you to go about it: first
spend some time thinking about these ruins, their strategic locations,
past history of the area, what they would have been used for, what their
weaknesses would be. Perhaps sketch a few maps for your own benefit.
Then sit down and think of all the different types of options you have
in contructing these ruins, and write up a list of questions about them
that the whole group can respond to (I’ll have a example, for the first
project the MISC group will be designing, up soon). Then when we’re done
with our first project, and are looking for a second project to do, we can
bring out your ideas, have everyone respond to them, and then you can do
the actual design/write-up incorporating all of the ideas we thought were
good. Sound good? If anyone else has ideas that they would like to be “in
charge of” for the MISC design group, they can do the same thing (although
I would appreciate hearing from you first, if only to make sure that the
topic does truely belong in the MISC group).

Mark VanderMeulen
vander+@pitt.edu