On Wed, 15 Jan 2003, irdeggman wrote:
> Something else that occurred to me - what about the attack of
> opportunity? Every character is entitled to a single attack of
> opportunity per round. This is a free action that occurs when the
> opportunity presents itself. Maybe giving one saving throw or attack
> of opportunity per round, player`s choice when the opportunity
> arrises.
I like this parallel. Then, in analogy with the feat for extra attacks of
opportunity, one could make a feat allowing people to get as many “free”
reflex saving throws per round as their Dex bonus. If other saves are
included (and I am tempted to say they ought to be, in that fighting off a
charm attempt could be considered to require an act of will just as
time-consuming and distracting to combat as jumping out of the way), then
either this feat would cover them all, or there would be three separate
feats. In either case, the number of extra actionless saves of each kind
would be determined by the relevant ability bonus (Dex, Wis or Con), so
that a character with all 14s and one or three feats would have up to
seven non-action saves each round (two of each kind from the bonuses, as
allowed by the feat(s), and the one save of unspecified type that everyone
gets). Or even just drop the feat requirement. In any case, the general
idea of “people with high relevant abilities get not only better saves,
but also more of them” strikes me as the natural complement of making
saves into actions.
Ryan Caveney
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On Wed, 15 Jan 2003, Gary wrote:
> in exchange for giving up his normal action (or move equivalent
> action) for the round he gains a +4 bonus to his saving throw.
I like this idea. Elegant, consistent, and no more unbalanced than
anything that`s already in the game. 
In keeping with that, a character could also take a +2/-2 on his
save/attack rolls in keeping with the fighting defensively option.
A good fit with the other one. One way to adapt the idea that saves take
time and are a distraction but that make them slightly less painful than
the original posters idea is to say that each save you are required to make gives some cumulative penalty (-2 circumstance, perhaps) to your next action. This allows sufficient skill differences to trump multi-save distractions (Im pretty sure Gary Kasparov could still crush me at chess
or Michael Jordan at basketball even if they had to dodge fireballs all
day and I didn`t), but magical “pinning fire” to have its proper effect:
even if you have little hope of hitting the enemy, shooting at them will
still induce them to keep their heads down.
Ryan Caveney
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From: “irdeggman” <brnetboard@TUARHIEVEL.ORG>
> that when a spellcaster has to make a concentration check to see if his
spell is
> disrupted - he only has to make it if he is is “hit” before his spell
goes off.
A small but important noticehere: a Concentration check is only required if
a spellcaster is hit WHILE casting a spell. This only happenes with an AoO
or Readied Action. For example, if a spellcaster moves back (more than the
free 5 ft.) and is hit by an AoO as a result of movement, that will NOT
disrupt a spell hi is casting immediately afterwards - as the attack did not
come WHILE he was spellcasting, but slightly before that during movement.
This is something I find old DnD players often misunderstand about the 3E
rules. In 2ed, a spellcaster that had taken ANY damage before it was his
turn in the round to act could not cast a spell. Remember, in those days
initiative was not cuclical, so there was an objective “earlier” and “later”
in the round. Those terms are no longer valid.
The exception here is continous damage, like that if the Melf`s Acid Arrow.
/Carl
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Christoph Tiemann wrote:
>…
>Reflex saves are move-equivalent actions. Will saves and Fortitude saves are free actions. In most cases, this should avoid a problem when several effects hit one target at once. In addition, several reflex saves can be combined into one action.
>
>The reasoning behind the rule would be that reflex saves require you to actively jump out of harm`s way, while you simply shrug of an effect when you make a Will or Fortitude save, similar to shrugging of the effects of a hit during combat (and yes, I know that I contradict my last post here, but this is still work in progress).
>
That depends on what you see as a successful saving throw.
Someone stung by a deadly poisonous spider could be e.g. experience heat
or cold, pain unendurable and after struggling for his saving throw can
finally overcome this effects due to his luck and fortitude.
A will saving throw can take days if you want to: An example everyone
knows: Satan trying to seduce Jesus…
Have a wizard cast a charm spell and the victim has (unseen by all but
real for him) to fight off the “attack” in his mind, ignoring the
seductive voice in his head luring him to see things different than
before…
bye
Michael Romes
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Actually if the caster is hit while moving before casting the spell it is the same action and hence he must make a concentration check in order to maintain casting the spell. The move-equivalent and standard action all occur at the same time.
The mechanic in 3rd ed for saving throws is instantaneous. I’d say that Jesus had to make “several” saving throws over that time, not just one. Several effects require multiple saving throws also.
I wouldnt call twisting away from a ray spell a move-equivalent action. It isnt that time-comsuming.
Likewise one could easily imagine both will and fortitude saves that require a full-round (or more) action.
Michael is right, it all depends on the situation.
> Christoph Tiemann wrote:
>
> >…
> >Reflex saves are move-equivalent actions. Will saves and Fortitude saves are free actions. In most cases, this should avoid a problem when several effects hit one target at once. In addition, several reflex saves can be combined into one action.
> >
> >The reasoning behind the rule would be that reflex saves require you to actively jump out of harm`s way, while you simply shrug of an effect when you make a Will or Fortitude save, similar to shrugging of the effects of a hit during combat (and yes, I know that I contradict my last post here, but this is still work in progress).
> >
> That depends on what you see as a successful saving throw.
> Someone stung by a deadly poisonous spider could be e.g. experience heat
> or cold, pain unendurable and after struggling for his saving throw can
> finally overcome this effects due to his luck and fortitude.
>
> A will saving throw can take days if you want to: An example everyone
> knows: Satan trying to seduce Jesus…
> Have a wizard cast a charm spell and the victim has (unseen by all but
> real for him) to fight off the “attack” in his mind, ignoring the
> seductive voice in his head luring him to see things different than
> before…
> bye
> Michael Romes
Cheers
Bjørn
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My bad on the concentration check for spell casting. I checked the D&D FAQ and yes the attack of opportunity only occurs during the casting portion of the player’s initiative.
Quote from PH, page 151 “The interrupting event strikes during spellcasting
if it comes between when you start and complete a spell (for a spell with a
casting time of 1 full round or more) or if it comes in response to your
casting the spell (such as an attack of opportunity provoked by the spell or
a contingency attack, such as a readied action).”
This means that it is only AoOs provoked by the spellcasting itself, not
anything else you may do during your action, that causes a Concentration
check. If your moving away triggers an AoO, that does not require a
Concentration check for a spell cast afterthat movement, even if it is in
the same round. Timing is not the issue - what provoked the attack is.
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