Unblooded Regents

A couple of sources have brought me to this conclusion.

Solmyrs rule about the highest law holding is ruler of province and Ians
rule of unblooded regents in Anduria.

What I have been thinking is that unblooded regents are possible anywhere
even in Cerilia. They however can only rule over law holdings(temple and
guild are possible also) signifying their power over the people and giving
the highest law holder the taxes. Perhaps with some penalties for other law
holders who oppose. The province investiture simply does not exist for
unblooded regents since they do not have a tie to the land.

Why am I bringing this up? Other lands than Cerilia do exist and possible
rules for how they maintain order would be nice to look into. Also I am
begining to expand into other settings as part of my campaign.

How about true magic and sources? I would say they remain under Ian`s rules
with one exception. Like elves certain cultures could tap into true magic
but not delve into the source and realm magic level until they are blooded.
So those of us who see the Magian as a normal wizard from a distant land can
explain his mastery of it and his compulsion to learn more about this
bloodline and realm magic stuff. This would also bring about a balancing
force if the wizards of Cerilia make a massive exodus to other continents in
order to grab the vast expanses of untouched sources. Indigenous Archmages
would catch on to this phenomena and work to preserve their own power.

I await comments on this potentially heretical post.

ciao


MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx


The Birthright Homepage: http://www.birthright.net
To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM
with UNSUB BIRTHRIGHT-L in the body of the message.

Example temple holding: To become a temple regent, a potential regent must do something outstanding for his church (I think). Further he must be accepted by his god (thats why I can’t understand the investure of Taril Herad) and he should be blooded.

From this aspect there can be a window for unblooded regents, if they are skilled. But they wouldn’t ever get regency points (for game terms). In my oppinion this symbolises that he would be never accepted by commoners and other priests (as regent). So if he is skilled and accepted by his god, his deity would arrange a bloodline for him…

Why couldn’t unblooded regents earn regency points? I have argued before about this that regency points are like political clout. It is not some sort of magic. It is clout you can choose to spend or build up. You shouldn’t have to be blooded to earn political clout. you should just have a vehicle to spend it through such as being a law holder or guild holder.

Further more why couldn’t a unblooded regent take power of a country through a peoples revolution? Thus becoming a province ruler?

At 02:39 PM 7/19/2002 +0200, Lord Eldred wrote:

>Why couldn`t unblooded regents earn regency points? I have argued before

about this that regency points are like political clout. It is not some
sort of magic. It is clout you can choose to spend or build up. You
shouldn`t have to be blooded to earn political clout. you should just
>have a vehicle to spend it through such as being a law holder or guild holder.

The Rulebook describes regency as a “mystical power that regents derive
from their stewardship” (p32) and the BR domain rules are written under the
assumption that RP really is some sort of magic. That doesnt mean you couldnt reinterpret RP as political clout, of course, but there are
several issues you should probably take into consideration in doing so.

  1. Source holdings. Even given the magical power interpretation of RP
    source holdings are kind of hinky. Going with a purely political version
    of RP puts sources in an even stranger situation, though. Sources
    represent the non-population based aspect of realms, so if RP represent
    political clout then it might make sense to reinterpret what source
    holdings do, who controls them, what they generate for the regent who does
    control them and generally their role in the domain system, because it`s
    hard to picture the control of animals, rocks and plant life of a source(5)
    generating the same amount of political clout that a law(5) does.

  2. Realm spells. Its hard to picture political clout being required to empower a domain level magical spell, so a bit of reinterpretation is needed here too. You could probably just do away with RP costs and maintain the holding level, GB costs and time required and most realm spells would be fine, though a few might need GB costs added to them or their current GB cost increased, and keeping some realm spells as is (the Alchemy spell, in particular) wouldnt make buckets of sense.

  3. Investiture. In the BR domain rules investiture can transfer RP from
    one regent to another without any dissipation, which doesnt really fit the political clout interpretation. The mundane system of favors, allegiances, etc. arent as transferrable as mystical power derived through a divine
    bloodline connection to the land. Vassalage agreements and investing an
    heir with one`s RP should both be either eliminated or penalized
    somehow. That is it “costs” 2RP to transfer 1RP to another
    regent. Something like that.

  4. Bloodlines. If no bloodline is required to rule then what is the role
    of a bloodline? Further, what is a bloodline if one can spend RP to
    improve it? If RP are represented by political clout rather than magical
    energy AND they can still increase bloodline strength then should
    bloodlines have magical powers associated with them? Should a system of
    bloodlines be used at all if one is going with the political clout
    interpretation of RP?

  5. Bloodtheft. “If a scion or regent dies as a result of another blooded
    character piercing him through the hear, the victims heir assumes his domain, but the victims Regency Points are lost.” Stabbing one through
    the heart really doesn`t have anything to do with political clout except in
    the kind of ancillary, “et tu Brute” adventure level kind of way. Take the
    way bloodtheft works with RP into consideration if going with the political
    clout version of RP.

  6. RP and GB. In a few occasions RP and GB are used interchangeably and
    you may want to take into consideration whether or not you can still spend
    RP to maintain troops, for instance, rather than GB. This one`s a little
    iffy, since you could certainly view the RP spent as being used to call in
    enough favors to maintain a unit of soldiers for a domain turn, but some
    people may have trouble with the concept that 200 men are “eating”
    political favors for three months.

There are a few other weird issues that will likely pop up if using a
political clout interpretation of RP, and if you DM players who are of the
“go along, get along” disposition and dont question the whys and
wherefore`s behind the rules then you may not need to even bother with any
of the above issues.

Further more why couldn`t a unblooded regent take power of a country
>through a peoples revolution? Thus becoming a province ruler?

He could. He couldnt be invested with those provinces or holdings, nor could he collect RP (or GB presumably) from them without some reinterpretation of the system. What youre talking about is probably best
expressed by provinces and holdings being “neutralized” (generating no
RP/GB for the blooded regent) per the Great Captain or Heresy random
event. The Unrest or Rebellion event could similarly be used.

Gary


The Birthright Homepage: http://www.birthright.net
To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM
with UNSUB BIRTHRIGHT-L in the body of the message.

On Fri, 19 Jul 2002, Gary wrote:
> >Further more why couldn`t a unblooded regent take power of a country

through a peoples revolution? Thus becoming a province ruler?

He could. He couldnt be invested with those provinces or holdings, nor > could he collect RP (or GB presumably) from them without some > reinterpretation of the system. What youre talking about is probably best
expressed by provinces and holdings being “neutralized” (generating no
RP/GB for the blooded regent) per the Great Captain or Heresy random
event. The Unrest or Rebellion event could similarly be used.

He could hold and tax them with military units- occupied provinces can be
taxed, using the occupiers military units as law holdings. I dont
remember the rule exactly, but it`s something like that. So GB, but no
RP.

If he were really destined for great things, the land`s choice would be
the way out for him.

Communication is possible only between equals.
Daniel McSorley- mcsorley@cis.ohio-state.edu


The Birthright Homepage: http://www.birthright.net
To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM
with UNSUB BIRTHRIGHT-L in the body of the message.

At 04:46 PM 7/19/2002 -0400, Daniel McSorley wrote:

>He could hold and tax them with military units- occupied provinces can be
>taxed, using the occupiers military units as law holdings. I dont
>remember the rule exactly, but it`s something like that. So GB, but no RP.

Thats true. Conquest and Occupation. Each unit represents a level of a law holding for the purpose of collecting GB. At least, thats the way it
would appear to work. The Rulebook doesn`t say it as neatly as that. It
says “the occupying forces serve as a temporary law holding equal to the
number of units present” and “As long as the conqueror occupies the
province with at least one unit, he can perform taxation and replace the
ruler in all respects but he cannot collect regency until he invests the
province” p66-67.

>If he were really destined for great things, the land`s choice would be

the way out for him.

Thats a possibility. Ive never really used the Lands Choice myself, and Im under the impression that it`s more of a random kind of thing than a
reward to the successful rebel, though I kind of like the idea and it does
fit into a couple of ideas I had regarding the interaction of the adventure
level and the realm level.

Gary


The Birthright Homepage: http://www.birthright.net
To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM
with UNSUB BIRTHRIGHT-L in the body of the message.

A political interpretation of regency doesnt lead to unblooded rulers if one regards the whole relationship between a ruler and the people as being sacred. Politics itself is a sacred art infused with the mandate of heaven. While modern thought might view politics, government, learning, economics, &c as secular and totally without a divine componant, BR with its bloodlines, regency, and mebhaighl supports the interpretation that rulership is divine. When the ruler steps before his court and wins their approval, this is a sacred act. It is because of his divine essence that he is capable of attracting support in the first place. Politics is impossible without nobility because its not mediated by divinity. Describing it as magical, or a mystical energy doesnt mean we have to exclude day to day
things as a part of that. This divine power can be in all things.

Kenneth Gauck
kgauck@mchsi.com


The Birthright Homepage: http://www.birthright.net
To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM
with UNSUB BIRTHRIGHT-L in the body of the message.

I interpret the lands choice as being an in-setting description for the transfer of an abandon bloodline by investiture to any but-for-a-bloodline legitimate ruler. I have pulled a bloodline out of my hat when I thought it was better to make an established character blooded than to leave them unblooded. I used a few quests and visions to add weight to this investiture. I would never allow any random assignment of bloodlines as a part of lands choice. That`s altogether the very essence of democracy.

Kenneth Gauck
kgauck@mchsi.com


The Birthright Homepage: http://www.birthright.net
To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM
with UNSUB BIRTHRIGHT-L in the body of the message.

>From: Kenneth Gauck <kgauck@MCHSI.COM>
>This divine power can be in all things.

Careful Kenneth you are getting philosophical. You may get your head bit
off.

ciao,

Paul


MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx


The Birthright Homepage: http://www.birthright.net
To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM
with UNSUB BIRTHRIGHT-L in the body of the message.

[b]Orginally posted by geeman

   At 02:39 PM 7/19/2002 +0200, Lord Eldred wrote:

>Why couldn`t unblooded regents earn regency points? I have argued before

about this that regency points are like political clout. It is not some
sort of magic. It is clout you can choose to spend or build up. You
shouldn`t have to be blooded to earn political clout. you should just
>have a vehicle to spend it through such as being a law holder or guild holder.

The Rulebook describes regency as a “mystical power that regents derive
from their stewardship” (p32) and the BR domain rules are written under the
assumption that RP really is some sort of magic. That doesnt mean you couldnt reinterpret RP as political clout, of course, but there are
several issues you should probably take into consideration in doing so.

  1. Source holdings. Even given the magical power interpretation of RP
    source holdings are kind of hinky. Going with a purely political version
    of RP puts sources in an even stranger situation, though. Sources
    represent the non-population based aspect of realms, so if RP represent
    political clout then it might make sense to reinterpret what source
    holdings do, who controls them, what they generate for the regent who does
    control them and generally their role in the domain system, because it`s
    hard to picture the control of animals, rocks and plant life of a source(5)
    generating the same amount of political clout that a law(5) does.
    [/b]

Political clout can come from magic power. A source holding gives more than just control of animals, rocks and plant life. It gives the owner a source of power. That source of power gives the owner political clout. Just as the law holding is really a source of physical power for the owner which translates into political clout. Thus I would argue both give the same amount of regency or political clout.

Orginally posted by geeman
2. Realm spells. Its hard to picture political clout being required to empower a domain level magical spell, so a bit of reinterpretation is needed here too. You could probably just do away with RP costs and maintain the holding level, GB costs and time required and most realm spells would be fine, though a few might need GB costs added to them or their current GB cost increased, and keeping some realm spells as is (the Alchemy spell, in particular) wouldnt make buckets of sense.

Perhaps you are right. One way to handle it is to eliminate the use of regency in casting spells. Or you could view the casting of realm spells differently. They take time and effort. One argument could be while you are spending the time and effort on casting the spell you are not maintaining your political clout and thus you lose some. Or you have to spend some of your clout to get the spell done such as using it as part of the Demagogue spell to increase loyalty. I don’t see it as a stretch. In fact it is a better logical explanation than what is given when you interpret R.P. as some sort of magical substance.

Orginally posted by geeman
3. Investiture. In the BR domain rules investiture can transfer RP from
one regent to another without any dissipation, which doesnt really fit the political clout interpretation. The mundane system of favors, allegiances, etc. arent as transferrable as mystical power derived through a divine
bloodline connection to the land. Vassalage agreements and investing an
heir with one`s RP should both be either eliminated or penalized
somehow. That is it “costs” 2RP to transfer 1RP to another
regent. Something like that.

You need to start thinking outside of the box. If magic can make a person look differently and magic can charm people, than magic can transfer someones political clout from one person to another. In your example, people suddenly think the allegiance is with me instead of you when the R.P. transfers. Vassalage is the ultimate example of how this really works. The vassal says I will let you use the favors people owe me instead of me using them myself.

Orginally posted by geeman
4. Bloodlines. If no bloodline is required to rule then what is the role
of a bloodline? Further, what is a bloodline if one can spend RP to
improve it? If RP are represented by political clout rather than magical
energy AND they can still increase bloodline strength then should
bloodlines have magical powers associated with them? Should a system of
bloodlines be used at all if one is going with the political clout
interpretation of RP?

A blooded regent has certain advantages that an unblooded regent can’t claim. They have certain powers that their bloodline brings. They have a claim on the rule of land based on their bloodline, just as kings and queens of old. They have the ability to gain regency just because they are a descendant of someone. They also can gain it like the unblooded would have to through their domain power (domain power is their ability to influence through holdings). Unblooded rulers can only gain regency through domain holdings. The one rule that has to be changed based on this interpretation is that r.p. is the samller of bloodline score or domain power. I would argue it should be the larger to give the blooded the advantage.

As far as increasing your bloodline. First I would ask you how you think the whole process works? My explanation is that you can spend regency to make people think your family was a lot more powerful or respected than they really were thus generating more support for you and thus increasing your ability to generate regency points. Another possible explanation is that it is a magic ritual. I don’t believe that any normal soul can perform this ritual. So you have to use your political clout with the person who can perform the ritual to have it done.

Orginally posted by geeman
5. Bloodtheft. “If a scion or regent dies as a result of another blooded
character piercing him through the hear, the victims heir assumes his domain, but the victims Regency Points are lost.” Stabbing one through
the heart really doesn`t have anything to do with political clout except in
the kind of ancillary, “et tu Brute” adventure level kind of way. Take the
way bloodtheft works with RP into consideration if going with the political
clout version of RP.

Actually it makes more sense if you think of it my way. If regency points are some sort of magic tied to the bloodline, why does it get lost when someone steals your bloodline. Shouldn’t the regency transfer with it? Now in my interpretation it makes sense. When a guy is dead, he can’t spend his political clout anymore. All agreements are off with anyone they had clout with!

Orginally posted by geeman
6. RP and GB. In a few occasions RP and GB are used interchangeably and
you may want to take into consideration whether or not you can still spend
RP to maintain troops, for instance, rather than GB. This one`s a little
iffy, since you could certainly view the RP spent as being used to call in
enough favors to maintain a unit of soldiers for a domain turn, but some
people may have trouble with the concept that 200 men are “eating”
political favors for three months.

Not if you are calling in political favors to have the men fed!

Orginally posted by geeman
There are a few other weird issues that will likely pop up if using a
political clout interpretation of RP, and if you DM players who are of the
“go along, get along” disposition and dont question the whys and
wherefore`s behind the rules then you may not need to even bother with any
of the above issues.

I think you answered it yourself.

At 07:25 PM 7/22/2002 +0200, Lord Eldred wrote:

First off, I should note that I think its fine to go with a political clout interpretation of regency. All Im saying is that if you`re going to
do so you also need to justify certain aspects of how the BR rules work at
the realm level, and that could cause some conflicts and situations that
would be sensible to address.

Now then… I didnt say that source holdings wouldnt generate RP in a
political clout interpretation of regency. I said its hard to picture equivalent amounts of control (holding levels) over the animals, rocks and plant life represented by a source holding being able to generate the same amount of political clout as a law holding, and that the role of the source holding when using a political clout interpretation of RP should be considered. Compare a source(3) to a law(3), guild(3), or temple(3) in a province 3/3. Would the regent who controlled the source really have as much political influence as the regents who control the legal lives of the approx. 10,000 people in that province or the one who controls trade and commerce, or the one who controls their religion? Presumably the source ruler has control over an equivalent number/hit dice/power of flora, fauna and real estate, but his connection to the political clout of the province is less direct. Sure, a given population can have an environmental sensibility that lends itself to political power, and control over natural resources does represent a political influence, but I dont think it has
the day-to-day significance (or 1:1 holding level to political clout RP)
that law, commerce and religion have, so it shouldn`t get the same
political influence.

>>2. Realm spells.
>
>Or you could view the casting of realm spells differently. They take time
>and effort. One argument could be while you are spending the time and
>effort on casting the spell you are not maintaining your political clout
>and thus you lose some. Or you have to spend some of your clout to get the
>spell done such as using it as part of the Demagogue spell to increase
>loyalty. I don`t see it as a stretch. In fact it is a better logical

explanation than what is given when you interpret R.P. as some sort of
magical substance.

If youre going with this option (which is just as plausible as any other) then shouldnt all realm spells have the same RP cost? That is the same
time and diverted effort is spent casting Dispel Realm Magic as was spent
on Honest Dealings, isnt it? GB costs can still provide a balancing factor, but since wizards tend to be cash poor, if youre going to fiddle
with the way RP function in realm magic using GB as the basis of realm
spells might further restrict what many people see as an imbalance for
wizards in the realm rules.

In the BR domain rules investiture can transfer RP from one regent to
another without any dissipation, which doesnt really fit the political &gt;&gt;clout interpretation. The mundane system of favors, allegiances, etc. &gt;&gt;arent as transferrable as mystical power derived through a divine
bloodline connection to the land. Vassalage agreements and investing an
heir with one`s RP should both be either eliminated or penalized
>>somehow. That is it “costs” 2RP to transfer 1RP to another
>>regent. Something like that.
>
>You need to start thinking outside of the box. If magic can make a person
>look differently and magic can charm people, than magic can transfer
>someones political clout from one person to another. In your example,
>people suddenly think the allegiance is with me instead of you when the
>R.P. transfers. Vassalage is the ultimate example of how this really
>works. The vassal says I will let you use the favors people owe me instead
>of me using them myself.

You need to start reading entire paragraphs. If you read what I wrote a
bit more carefully, I think youll note that I didnt say one couldnt transfer RP or have vassalage agreements using the political clout interpretation of RP. All Im saying is that political clout isnt as easily transferred from one person to another as a magically interpreted version of RP is, because "magical points" can be seen as "magical energy" being conserved and passed on, where an abstract concept like political clout isnt so easily justified being transferred without any loss from one
person to the next. So you might want to take into consideration some sort
of “cost” or “loss rate” when transferring RP from one regent to another,
be they regent to regent, Vassal to regent or whatever.

As for political clout RP being magically transferred… If youre going to go with a hybrid kind of thing (magically transferred political clout) then, of course, anything can happen, but Id suggest that the difference
between “magical RP” and “political clout RP that are transferred
magically” is pretty slim, because I would think that if it could be
transferred magically then it could also be spent magically and changed
into bloodline magically, etc. so it might as well just be magical. Magic
transferring favors from one person to another without any dissipation in
political clout doesn`t strike me as any more plausible than making RP
magical to begin with.

But if you really want to go with magically transferred political clout RP
(there`s a mouthful…) then you might want to look at how that magical
transfer is aided. Magical devices? Magic spells? Magical special
abilities a la some sort of prestige class, racial template or blood
ability? It opens up a whole new line of possibilities (many of which
could be very interesting to play.)

>A blooded regent has certain advantages that an unblooded regent can`t

claim. They have certain powers that their bloodline brings. They have a
claim on the rule of land based on their bloodline, just as kings and
queens of old. They have the ability to gain regency just because they are
a descendant of someone. They also can gain it like the unblooded would
have to through their domain power (domain power is their ability to
influence through holdings). Unblooded rulers can only gain regency
through domain holdings. The one rule that has to be changed based on this
interpretation is that r.p. is the samller of bloodline score or domain
power. I would argue it should be the larger to give the blooded the advantage.

Im not really following your logic there since it seems to me that if RP represent political clout rather than magical energy there isnt a game
mechanical limitation that can ever be put on it that cant be very easily challenged or changed (which isnt a bad thing–people should be able to
manipulate a system as they like) so the option (bloodline score or domain
power–whichever is higher for the amount of RP collected) isnt necessarily as cut and dried as you make it. Bloodline as a limitation on magical RP collection gets changed from time to time in various house rules, and thats the basis of the BR domain rules, so going with a
definition of RP that isnt tied to the background, game mechanics of the setting will inevitably draw many different interpretations. Personally, I wouldnt go with a bloodline score or domain power, whichever is higher
system since it makes a guy with a high bloodline score and a single level
of a holding (or even a level 0 holding, right?) a possibly more serious
political player than someone with a vast series of provinces and holdings
regardless of his bloodline score.

[continued…]


The Birthright Homepage: http://www.birthright.net
To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM
with UNSUB BIRTHRIGHT-L in the body of the message.

[continued from previous post…]

Lord Eldred wrote:

>As far as increasing your bloodline. First I would ask you how you think
>the whole process works?

Under the magical version of RP or in “real life?” The magical one doesnt require much additional explanation, I dont think. Under the real
life/political clout interpretation of RP… I dont know if there really is a very good rationale for spending RP to increase ones bloodline. I
don`t think it actually happens anywhere in “real life” or politically. At
least not in the sense that it exists in the game.

My explanation is that you can spend regency to make people think your
family was a lot more powerful or respected than they really were thus
generating more support for you and thus increasing your ability to
generate regency points. Another possible explanation is that it is a
magic ritual. I don`t believe that any normal soul can perform this
>ritual. So you have to use your political clout with the person who can
>perform the ritual to have it done.

OK, but do you really need RP for this at all? And if youre going with a political clout interpretation of RP you should consider the system of turning RP into bloodline strength. Can someone "create" a bloodline by spending a single RP? Why or why not? Should the amount of RP required to increase ones bloodline remain the same? Why or why not? Should there be
a flat rate? Should the scale be higher or lower? How powerful is a
political clout RP and does it really have the kind of “power” needed to
raise someone`s bloodline?

Your response would seem to indicate that you also favor a non-magical
interpretation of bloodline–which is also perfectly plausible, but
bloodline is undoubtedly magical in nature in the current rules so if
you`re going with a non-magical RP system that interacts with
a non-magical bloodline system then it would make sense to look at blood
abilities, how bloodlines are transferred to children, bloodline
derivations, etc.

>>Bloodtheft… Take the way bloodtheft works with RP into consideration
>>if going with the political clout version of RP.
>
>Actually it makes more sense if you think of it my way. If regency points
>are some sort of magic tied to the bloodline, why does it get lost when
>someone steals your bloodline. Shouldn`t the regency transfer with it?

Now in my interpretation it makes sense. When a guy is dead, he can`t
>spend his political clout anymore. All agreements are off with anyone they
>had clout with!

I didn`t really present the issue very well there so let me
rephrase. Compare the BR rules: a regent slain by a commoner or who dies a
natural death transfers all his RP to his heir, but a regent slain by a
stab through the heart by another scion does not transfer RP to his
heir. The magical interpretation of RP is tied up with the magical nature
of bloodlines on this one.

Using a different interpretation of RP you should consider whether or not
or how many RPs will be transferred upon the death of a regent. The
specific decision here isn`t really the point. You could handle it however
you think best and rationalize it any way fits into your interpretation of
RP. One person might transfer all RP to an heir when a regent dies under
any circumstances, another might transfer none, yet a third might think it
makes sense to transfer a fraction, or one could have circumstances dictate
how many RP are transferred. My point is that it would be a good idea to
decide such a thing before it happens in a campaign.

>>RP and GB. This one`s a little iffy, since you could certainly view the

RP spent as being used to call in enough favors to maintain a unit of
soldiers for a domain turn, but some people may have trouble with the
concept that 200 men are “eating” political favors for three months.

Not if you are calling in political favors to have the men fed!

Yes, you could go with that interpretation (as, again, I noted in the
paragraph in which I raised the point) but what Im saying is that it might get a bit difficult to justify eventually. If a realm isnt producing
enough GB to pay its soldiers then it`s hard to see why it would be able to
feed them on favors, which is something that using the current rules on RP
could be done indefinitely and could strain verisimilitude. There are a
few other occasions than the example of maintain troops, however, in which
RP can be used in place of GB and vice versa. Agitation actions, for
example, and it seems to me there are a few others. If one can spend
political clout RP to maintain troops then it would be justifiable to spend
them to maintain castles, courts, or spend them on just about any other use
of GB, right?

In fact, some folks have suggested doing away with RP entirely and going
with a purely GB based realm system. Such a system could work just as well
as a magical or political clout interpretation of RP, which leads me to
wonder if one wants to go with a political clout interpretation of RP then
why not take that next step and do away with RP? “Favors” and
“alliegances” are all well and good, but arent they really role-playing decisions, not something that need be articulated by RP? Couldnt
political clout be as easily expressed economically, especially since realm
level activities all have a GB cost. GB talk, RP walk…

Anyway, other things you might want to take into consideration if going
with a political clout interpretation of RP:

  1. Youve noted some limitation on RP collection, but thats something that
    really needs some thought. Bloodline strength represents the maximum
    amount of RP a regent can collect, but if RP is political clout it need not
    necessarily have anything to do with bloodlines. Anybody can have
    political clout, and anybody can garner political influence. If there`s no
    limit of RP collection then there is little need for the Vassalage system
    of BR and it might make sense to just assume such a system of
    loyalty/allegiance exists.

  2. RP awards. Along the same lines, should RP collection necessarily be
    restricted to province/holding levels and trade routes in a non-magical
    interpretation of RP? In the same way that RP can be lost by not
    responding to random events, losing several provinces, etc. in the current
    rules, it`s easy to picture non-regents gaining political/RP from
    successfully participating in adventures that have a political
    significance. Rescuing the princess should give you political clout with
    the king, as should fighting off the hordes of rabid minions of <whatever>
    when they threaten the kingdom. Many typical D&D adventures might earn RP,
    turning regency into another aspect of the reward system.

  3. Shelf Life. Owing someone a favor grows stale pretty quickly, and oaths
    of allegiance fade in significance over time. Several people have
    suggested system in which RP storage is lost ranging from things like
    bloodline strength score as the maximum RP that can be transferred from one
    domain turn to the next to all unspent RP are lost at the end of the domain
    turn. RP as political clout should probably not allow one to store up
    “favors” for use indefinitely and without any maximum storage limit.

Gary


The Birthright Homepage: http://www.birthright.net
To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM
with UNSUB BIRTHRIGHT-L in the body of the message.

On Tue, 2002-07-23 at 03:25, brnetboard@TUARHIEVEL.ORG wrote:

Lord Eldred wrote:

Orginally posted by geeman

             At 02:39 PM 7/19/2002 +0200, Lord Eldred wrote:

&gt;Why couldn`t unblooded regents earn regency points? I have argued before
>about this that regency points are like political clout. It is not some
>sort of magic. It is clout you can choose to spend or build up. You
>shouldn`t have to be blooded to earn political clout. you should just
&gt;have a vehicle to spend it through such as being a law holder or guild holder.

I agree. (in principle at least)

The Rulebook describes regency as a "mystical power that regents derive
from their stewardship" (p32) and the BR domain rules are written under the
assumption that RP really is some sort of magic.

Nowhere does it come even close to stating such. That`s hanging a long
cloth on the one-time use of mystical here.

1. Source holdings.  Even given the magical power interpretation of RP
source holdings are kind of hinky.  Going with a purely political version
of RP puts sources in an even stranger situation, though.

While this is a good point, look at what you can`t do (barred actions)
from sources. Certainly sources are some kind of special case - but, in
being a special case (and that is certainly acknowledged in the rules)
do not serve as a refutation to a general case.

Perhaps you are right. One way to handle it is to eliminate the use of regency
in casting spells. Or you could view the casting of realm spells differently.
They take time and effort. One argument could be while you are spending the
time and effort on casting the spell you are not maintaining your political
clout and thus you lose some. Or you have to spend some of your clout to get
the spell done such as using it as part of the Demagogue spell to increase
loyalty. I don`t see it as a stretch. In fact it is a better logical
explanation than what is given when you interpret R.P. as some sort of magical
substance.

If you define regency as being the reflection of “the aura of command
that surrounds a ruler or a great scion - their innate expectation that
they will be obeyed/followed”, then a non-blooded ruler with a powerful
domain would have as much regency as a powerful blooded scion with no
domain.

Such a reflection can occur in the mundane or the magical world, but not
equally into both - that is, being a great king grants you very little
influence in the realm of magic and vice versa. The usefulness of
regency from a magical perspective is simply different from the use of
regency in a mundane perspective - and of course, vice versa. [e.g. no
matter how much regency a king of a realm has - this does not empower
him to cast spells]

Regency points then, (cf regency itself as above - and I will get to the
point eventually) are a game mechanic that allows us to measure the use
of regency by allowing expenditure of a controlled number of points over
a fixed time period.

[quote][i]Orginally posted by geeman[/i]
3. Investiture.  In the BR domain rules investiture can transfer RP from
one regent to another without any dissipation, which doesn`t really fit the
political clout interpretation.  The mundane system of favors, allegiances,
etc. aren`t as transferrable as mystical power derived through a divine
bloodline connection to the land.  Vassalage agreements and investing an
heir with one`s RP should both be either eliminated or penalized
somehow.  That is it "costs" 2RP to transfer 1RP to another
regent.  Something like that.
You need to start thinking outside of the box. If magic can make a person
look differently and magic can charm people, than magic can transfer someones
political clout from one person to another. In your example, people suddenly
think the allegiance is with me instead of you when the R.P. transfers.
Vassalage is the ultimate example of how this really works. The vassal says
I will let you use the favors people owe me instead of me using them myself.

This is well put. I would add that it doesnt have to be a magical thing. The rules allow for easy transference without investiture of law holdings and guild holdings (and, through the BoM, source holdings - although whether this is magical or not is blurry). Again, and even more so than before, hanging a lot on the use of mystical==magical`.

[quote][i]Orginally posted by geeman[/i]
4. Bloodlines.  If no bloodline is required to rule then what is the role
of a bloodline?  Further, what is a bloodline if one can spend RP to
improve it?  If RP are represented by political clout rather than magical
energy AND they can still increase bloodline strength then should
bloodlines have magical powers associated with them?  Should a system of
bloodlines be used at all if one is going with the political clout
interpretation of RP?
[quote]

A blooded regent has certain advantages that an unblooded regent can`t
claim. They have certain powers that their bloodline brings. They have a
claim on the rule of land based on their bloodline, just as kings and
queens of old. They have the ability to gain regency just because they
are a descendant of someone. They also can gain it like the unblooded
would have to through their domain power (domain power is their ability
to influence through holdings). Unblooded rulers can only gain regency
through domain holdings. The one rule that has to be changed based on
this interpretation is that r.p. is the samller of bloodline score or
domain power. I would argue it should be the larger to give the blooded
the advantage.

Exactly. Bloodlines are a head-start. An advantage to those favored of
the gods. A bonus by virtue of inheritance. Between a small domain run
by an unblooded character (or a character with a lowly tainted
bloodline) and an equally small domain run by a character with a great
bloodline - there should be an admission that the character with the
great bloodline has a greater aura of command and is a more inspiring
and effective regent.


The Birthright Homepage: http://www.birthright.net
To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM
with UNSUB BIRTHRIGHT-L in the body of the message.

On Tue, 2002-07-23 at 09:28, Gary wrote:

[continued from previous post...]

G,
yes you are right - there is a lot to be considered to balance
everything out. Then again to put things into perspective, how balanced
is everything now?

Anyway, other things you might want to take into consideration if going
with a political clout interpretation of RP:

1. You`ve noted some limitation on RP collection, but that`s something that
really needs some thought.  Bloodline strength represents the maximum
amount of RP a regent can collect, but if RP is political clout it need not
necessarily have anything to do with bloodlines.  Anybody can have
political clout, and anybody can garner political influence.  If there`s no
limit of RP collection then there is little need for the Vassalage system
of BR and it might make sense to just assume such a system of
loyalty/allegiance exists.

collection is a board game term to describe a game mechanic. (e.g.
collect $200 as you pass “GO”) Perhaps itd be easier to think of it in terms like "restore hit points/regency points to maximum value" - Ill
come back to that further on.

2. RP awards.  Along the same lines, should RP collection necessarily be
restricted to province/holding levels and trade routes in a non-magical
interpretation of RP?  In the same way that RP can be lost by not
responding to random events, losing several provinces, etc. in the current
rules, it`s easy to picture non-regents gaining political/RP from
successfully participating in adventures that have a political
significance.  Rescuing the princess should give you political clout with
the king, as should fighting off the hordes of rabid minions of &lt;whatever&gt;
when they threaten the kingdom.  Many typical D&D adventures might earn RP,
turning regency into another aspect of the reward system.

Potentially some actions might generate political clout or influence -
but, given your point 3, (coming up), a player should turn that into
reality ASAP. e.g. Get a vassalage or grant of some kind - turn it into
a domain. “King Rufus: I appoint you Baron Renfrew, with all the rights,
incomes, and responsibilities thereof - owing allegience only to the
throne of Flatland etc etc…”

3. Shelf Life.  Owing someone a favor grows stale pretty quickly, and oaths
of allegiance fade in significance over time.  Several people have
suggested system in which RP storage is lost ranging from things like
bloodline strength score as the maximum RP that can be transferred from one
domain turn to the next to all unspent RP are lost at the end of the domain
turn.  RP as political clout should probably not allow one to store up
"favors" for use indefinitely and without any maximum storage limit.

Yes Gary, here again I agree. Shelf life is very short, especially when
viewed in terms of political expediency. I favor the all unspent RP are
lost scenario. There is room I think however for a more binding form of
agreement, sanctioned by the gods (i.e. priesthoods via investiture) and
bound in blood (sworn on pain of losing bloodline/honor).

Gary

****************************************************************************
The Birthright Homepage: [http://www.birthright.net](http://www.birthright.net)
To unsubscribe, send email to [email]LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM[/email]
with UNSUB BIRTHRIGHT-L in the body of the message.

The Birthright Homepage: http://www.birthright.net
To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM
with UNSUB BIRTHRIGHT-L in the body of the message.

At 09:50 AM 7/23/2002 +1000, Peter Lubke wrote:

>>The Rulebook describes regency as a “mystical power that regents derive
>>from their stewardship” (p32) and the BR domain rules are written under
>>the assumption that RP really is some sort of magic.
>
>Nowhere does it come even close to stating such. That`s hanging a long

cloth on the one-time use of mystical here.

Well, its the very next sentence after the section entitled "Regency" the same way many other terms are defined throughout the BR texts and many other D&D materials.... Its the genus of the definition. “Regency is the
MYSTICAL POWER [genus] associated with blooded rulers and leaders
[species.]” It further describes regency as “an invisible crown” or an
“unseen aura of power that allows him to do things that lesser mortals
COULDN`T EVEN DREAM ABOUT.” [Emphasis mine.]

Also, it is not a one-time reference. On p30-31 (again under a “Regency”
heading) it says, “Blooded characters who control kingdoms are blessed with
a MYSTICAL [mine] connection to the land–a right to rule that infuses them
with SUPERNATURAL [mine] powers, responsibilities and benefits.” It goes
on to speculate about the nature of regency as “something in the
semi-divine blood of a noble scion responds to the allegiance of his
followers in the same way that a true deity gains strength from
worshippers. Kings and nobles arent the only rulers blessed with this MYSTICAL [mine] ability." And continues that "The MYSTIC [mine] powers that regents derive from their stewardship is known as divine right, karma, or nobility--but its most commonly and correctly called
regency.” [sic] In the next paragraph, it says “In game terms, regency
is measured by Regency Points”.

It never says anywhere flat out that “the domain rules were written under
the assumption that RP is some sort of magic” but they are nonetheless. If
RP is not mystical power then:

How does it empower realm spells as it does?
Why is a bloodline required to earn RP?
How does it grant magical abilities when it is spent to increases
bloodline strength score, and how does it increase bloodline strength score
in the first place?
Why is the transfer of RP from a regent to an heir stopped by an act of
bloodtheft?
How is it transferred without any restriction at all through vassalage
agreements or from regent to heir?
Why is an investiture realm spell required in order to transfer RP
through vassalage? If it`s political favors and allegiance then what need
for the magical ceremony?

Having said all that, its 100% OK, completely kosher, absolutely no problem, honky dory, fine and dandy to go with a non-magical interpretation of RP. It is. Really. Im not at all saying one cant do reinterpret RP and go with such an interpretation. Its not a superior or inferior method
of playing at the realm level. All I`m saying is that questions like those
listed above should be addressed if one is going to go with that
interpretation because sooner or later they are going to come up.

I do kind of suspect, however, that a non-magical interpretation of RP will
eventually lead to a non-RP based system of realm rules. At least, thats the way I think Id do it. The only D&D material that I can think of that
has presented domain level effects with some sort of RP (be they mystical
or mundane) is BR. The other systems that have been published in issues of
Dragon or the smidges of domain-like rules presented in a few campaign
sources, didn`t bother with the concept at all, instead just using money to
represent political strength.

One thing that might help sustain a “political power” based RP system is an
interaction at the adventure level. If spending an RP or three allowed one
to get the benefit of the “Favor” special ability given to the noble
character classes in the WoT setting and the new Star Wars update. That
might make some sense, and serve as a gateway into the realm level of play.

Gary


The Birthright Homepage: http://www.birthright.net
To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM
with UNSUB BIRTHRIGHT-L in the body of the message.

On Tue, 2002-07-23 at 11:50, Gary wrote:

At 09:50 AM 7/23/2002 +1000, Peter Lubke wrote:

&gt;&gt;The Rulebook describes regency as a "mystical power that regents derive
&gt;&gt;from their stewardship" (p32) and the BR domain rules are written under
&gt;&gt;the assumption that RP really is some sort of magic.
&gt;
&gt;Nowhere does it come even close to stating such. That`s hanging a long
>cloth on the one-time use of mystical here.

Well, it`s the very next sentence after the section entitled "Regency" the
same way many other terms are defined throughout the BR texts and many
other D&D materials....  It`s the genus of the definition.  "Regency is the
MYSTICAL POWER [genus] associated with blooded rulers and leaders
[species.]"  It further describes regency as "an invisible crown" or an
"unseen aura of power that allows him to do things that lesser mortals
COULDN`T EVEN DREAM ABOUT."  [Emphasis mine.]

"Couldnt even dream about" - a figure of speech that is always used in an exaggerated context to add emphasis - all the time knowing full well that it is completely incorrect. i.e. Bob is so rich you couldnt even
dream about it. <- but Bob IS that rich - it IS possible (and lesser
mortals CAN gain that much regency - and they CAN dream about it - in
fact not all regents have gobs and gobs of regency, some have but a
small amount)

Anyway, that`s not the point.

(i) The argument/position is that you could have a non-blooded ruler -
or more exactly - that a non-blooded (or weakly blooded) ruler could
have a great deal of regency, if they control a powerful domain. That
control of the domain and the authority, power, influence, prestige etc
that surround the ruler of a powerful domain are not a personal
attribute - that they depend on the position occupied. e.g. The
President of the US is a powerful man, not personally, but in his
office. [also see in the above reference derive from their stewardship]

(ii) A man put into such a position does however assume some
characteristics of command through experiencing the effects of the
position, they come to a personal power that they can take with them
when they leave office (in most cases). Using the same example an
ex-President still has a great deal of “presence”, but not so great as a
current President.

(iii) The further position is that blooded characters have the aura of
command, an innate sense of personal right, before they even gain such a
position. The heir to a throne - in expectation of an eventual
ascendancy to such power - will exhibit some characteristics of
rulership even before any authority is actually passed to them. And
others will treat them with the respect due a future ruler. Some people
were born to be President so to speak. (ha!)

IMO (and IMC currently in hiatus), whenever a character that is
unblooded gains control of a domain - they will also gain a bloodline,
although initially of only 1 point. This from a house rule that states
“the probability of gaining a bloodline point (BP) each domain turn is
equal to difference between domain power(DP) and bloodline proportionate
to domain power. (DP-BP)/(DP)”, which for an unblooded character is
always a probability of 1.00 (DP-0)/DP. Such a rule leads logically to
the point that only blooded characters can rule domains - due to the
effects of point (ii) above.

Also, it is not a one-time reference.  On p30-31 (again under a "Regency"
heading) it says, "Blooded characters who control kingdoms are blessed with
a MYSTICAL [mine] connection to the land--a right to rule that infuses them

I not contesting the use of “mystical” – just the connection that you
are drawing from its use (that mystical is “magical”). And this
reference is regarding supernatural powers – again - does
“supernatural” == “magical” ? If the authors meant “magical” why not
come right out and say so? Why use these other terms? Variety at the
expense of clarity? lack of funds to get the document edited before
printing?


The Birthright Homepage: http://www.birthright.net
To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM
with UNSUB BIRTHRIGHT-L in the body of the message.

Geeman,

Thanks for giving me permission to go with a political interpretation. If you want to go with a magical interpretation then be my guest. However, you need to answer the following:

  1. How did people rule before bloodlines since the Rulebook indicates "Bloodlines were created when the heroes at the battle of Mount Deismaar were imbued with the essence of the gods? IF people could rule before Deismaar without a bloodline, why do the rules require that you have to be blooded?

  2. At the same time the rulebook hints at the possibility for non-blooded rulers when it says on page 3 “…most of Cerilia’s rulers are descendants of the blood.” How do these rulers lead without regency since EVERYTHING calls for its use when it comes to ruling?

  3. Do you agree with Magian’s interpretation on what unblooded characters can rule and if so how do you justify it based on all the arguments you made against me?

  4. Since regency is a blend of nobility, honor, and kismet, (in rulebook under regency) how does a source holding under your interpretation give a wizard the same amount of regency points as a guild or temple? Does having a source make the wizard more noble or honorable? Maybe it has some influence on kismet.

  5. Why does a realm spell cost a wizard/priest his/her nobility, honor or kismet to cast? After all if the Wizard dispels a plague or a Priest blesses the land wouldn’t that make him/her more noble and honorable?

  6. If r.p. can be magically transferred upon death, why doesn’t it magically transfer during bloodtheft?

  7. You fluffed off the answer to this question before, how does r.p convert into a better bloodline strength? I would like a better answer than it is magic. There are explanations for all magic, that is why wizards spend time studying it…to understand it. How does it work?

If you notice I have thrown most of your questions about political clout back at your theory of magical interpretation and added some more questions. Both theories may have some problems. I think the rule makers intended a mix of both. Here is some of my evidence:

  1. Geeman indicates that page 32 describes regency as a “mystical power that regents derive from their stewardship.” That is actually page 31. The quote from 32 is “Regency is the mystical power associated with blooded rulers and leaders. It’s a blend of nobility, honor, and kismet that a true king wears like an invisible crown. If a character rules well and examplifies the qualities of his alignment, his regency is strong-his unseen aura of power helps him to do things that lesser mortals couldn’t dream about. If a king rules poorly, his regency weakens.”

a. please notice the choice of the word mystical not magical. WE are trying to define regency when by definition it is a mysterious thing by definition. This would allow for regency being political clout and magical power or a combination thereof.

b. It indicates that it deals with nobility, honor, and kismet. None of which are necessarily magical unless you want to argue that fate is…People of a noble nature have more political clout, people want to follow them. The more noble they are the more clout they have. Nothing says that this political clout doesn’t translate into a magical power of such.

c. It indicates that the way the regent acts determines the amount of regency. Which fits well with my political clout interpretation, the better you act the more people want to follow you for good characters. And for evil characters the more terrified people are of you the more they will do what you want.

  1. Geeman doesn’t give you the full quote from page 31 either. It says " Because every ruler and every domain is unique, the people of Cerilia refer to these individuals as regents. In this sense of the word, they’re stewards of power who hold both the trust of the people and the responsiblity for the land. The mystic power that regents derive from their stewardship is known as divne right, karma, or nobility-but it’s most commonly and correctly called regency." This shows that the regency comes from both political clout and ‘magic’. The political clout is the trust of the people and the ‘magic’ is the responsibility for the land. These together give the mystic power known as regency.

The reason why other political settings failed to capture the flavor of how it is to rule is that they did not have game mechanics to manipulate the rulers power. Regency points is what does it for Birthright. I don’t care what way you interpret them, they are a necessary part of the game. I don’t get the logic that says if R.P. is not magical then we should abandon them altogether. Then it wouldn’t be Birthright any more.

Look, the political clout theory easily explains how unblooded characters can and have ruled (in Birthright before Deismaar). It also accounts for their being more blooded regents than non-blooded because blooded regents have an advantage based on the powers the bloodline gives them. It does have a few kinks but both interpretations do. IF you don’t want to go with the polical clout theory then I think you have to go with no unblooded regents. That does not mean an unblooded character could not become a regent. They can inherit the bloodline. The rule book says that sometimes exceptional commoners have become blooded and that some of the explanations for these occurrences remain a mystery, but history records several such incidents. So that leaves open the leader of a revolution could suddenly become blooded and take over as regent.

ONE FINAL MESSAGE TO GEEMAN…I did read all of your paragraphs. I understood that you thought partial political clout could transfer. I am saying think outside of the box. There can be explanations for the entire political clout to transfer. I am however sorry if I offended you by the statement.

On Tue, 2002-07-23 at 13:54, brnetboard@TUARHIEVEL.ORG wrote:

Lord Eldred wrote:
 Geeman,

I have one more.

  1. Could the Rulebook (page 40, under 3. Collect Regency Points) be in
    error when it states “The lower of the two numbers represents Regency
    Points.” ? If not, how do you account for the discrepancy between this
    ruling and the calculations for regents “Regency Generated/Accumulated:”
    values in Ruins of Empire on pages 10 (Roesone), 19 (Port of Call
    Exchange), 22 (Boeruine), 24 (Talinie) … in fact in ALL cases
    throughout where the calculation is done - where the results are as if
    the wording was “The higher of the two numbers…” ?

The Birthright Homepage: http://www.birthright.net
To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM
with UNSUB BIRTHRIGHT-L in the body of the message.

On Tue, 23 Jul 2002, Peter Lubke wrote:
> 8. Could the Rulebook (page 40, under 3. Collect Regency Points) be in
> error when it states “The lower of the two numbers represents Regency
> Points.” ? If not, how do you account for the discrepancy between this
> ruling and the calculations for regents “Regency Generated/Accumulated:”
> values in Ruins of Empire on pages 10 (Roesone), 19 (Port of Call
> Exchange), 22 (Boeruine), 24 (Talinie) … in fact in ALL cases
> throughout where the calculation is done - where the results are as if
> the wording was “The higher of the two numbers…” ?

The rulebook is correct as written, pretty much by definition. I find it
much easier to believe the tallies in Ruins are incorrect, or were written
by someone with an incomplete version of the rules. In particular, I just
looked at Boeruine, and as near as I can tell, his bloodline is 60, his
domain power, including Boeruine itself, plus law holdings in the imperial
city, Taeghas, Talinie, and Tuornen, is 83. Thus, the 91 quoted on p22 of
Ruins is wrong by either standard, and it`s easier to just go with the
rulebook.

Communication is possible only between equals.
Daniel McSorley- mcsorley@cis.ohio-state.edu


The Birthright Homepage: http://www.birthright.net
To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM
with UNSUB BIRTHRIGHT-L in the body of the message.

Hello!

brnetboard@TUARHIEVEL.ORG wrote:

>Lord Eldred wrote:
>..1. How did people rule before bloodlines since the Rulebook indicates "Bloodlines were created when the heroes at the battle of Mount Deismaar were imbued with the essence of the gods? IF people could rule before Deismaar without a bloodline, why do the rules require that you have to be blooded?
>
They ruled - less successfull. Without RP to raise their chances in
their actions it would have been just like it´s here on earth.
I would consider it to be before Deismaar like every realm ruled by a
lieutenant, who can´t use RP.

>2. At the same time the rulebook hints at the possibility for non-blooded rulers when it says on page 3 “…most of Cerilia`s rulers are descendants of the blood.” How do these rulers lead without regency since EVERYTHING calls for its use when it comes to ruling?

More difficult. They could occupy lands with troops which then count as
law holdings. So they can pillage, tax, make decrees (laws)… and hope
for the lands choice or a chance to be invested with a bloodline…

  1. Since regency is a blend of nobility, honor, and kismet, (in rulebook under regency) how does a source holding under your interpretation give a wizard the same amount of regency points as a guild or temple? Does having a source make the wizard more noble or honorable? Maybe it has some influence on kismet.

Political clout is not only influence - a wizards RP could be
interpreted as the fear of the magical powers the wizard/source holder
wields. You do not want to anger one who can summon 200 Ogres in your
backyard, would you?

  1. Why does a realm spell cost a wizard/priest his/her nobility, honor or kismet to cast? After all if the Wizard dispels a plague or a Priest blesses the land wouldn`t that make him/her more noble and honorable?
    >
    It certainly should have some positive effects for the caster - maybe a
    reward by the landed lord. Gratitude by the people - even a few RP… As
    are losses of RP described on p. 48 of the rulebook for failures you
    could always give some RP away for successes…

>6. If r.p. can be magically transferred upon death, why doesn`t it magically transfer during bloodtheft?
>
Why not? It´s magical, not necessarily logical…
And with a Tighmaevril weapon it does in part…

bye
Michael


The Birthright Homepage: http://www.birthright.net
To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM
with UNSUB BIRTHRIGHT-L in the body of the message.