Cerilian gods

Dungeons & Dragons The Royal Library
21

you can have a perfectly SPLENDID evil cult of Haelyn worshippers that seek to dominate over everyone else (LE) and spread their order at the point of a sword.

you can also have the splendid, non evil, but certainly villainous Emerald Spiral, stand against anyone, throwing excimmunications like peanuts and generally maintain the Rjurik in a Dark Age.

Kriesha is known in brechtur

Sons of Serpent and the Cuiraecen Church in Aftane can be perfect in Khinasi

The problem is not a lack of gods, since there is plenty of room allowed for the priests to be evil, even if their god is good. You can have the evil cult without having an evil god. That is the reason we have so many different doctrines flying around :slight_smile:

22

There is more. It seems that Belnik has a kind of crude appeal among
Ainureans; notice the various “Vos” cults in out-of-the-way places.

brnetboard@TUARHIEVEL.ORG <brnetboard@TUARHIEVEL.ORG> wrote at 02-06-27
11.37:

> A_dark wrote:
> you can have a perfectly SPLENDID evil cult of Haelyn worshippers that seek to
> dominate over everyone else (LE) and spread their order at the point of a
> sword.
>
> you can also have the splendid, non evil, but certainly villainous Emerald
> Spiral, stand against anyone, throwing excimmunications like peanuts and
> generally maintain the Rjurik in a Dark Age.
>
> Kriesha is known in brechtur
>
> Sons of Serpent and the Cuiraecen Church in Aftane can be perfect in Khinasi
>
> The problem is not a lack of gods, since there is plenty of room allowed for
> the priests to be evil, even if their god is good. You can have the evil cult
> without having an evil god. That is the reason we have so many different
> doctrines flying around :slight_smile:
>
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23

I too dont like the fact the two evil gods are kind of out of the way when it comes to the rest of Cerilia. The Vos gods just dont fit the feeling of the rest of the world. They specialize in the ways of the Vos, the doctrines that help them survive. While they are evil and ruthless they just dont have the carisma of like a fr Bane with his Zenterium. Dont get me wrong BR is my favorit setting of all!!! i just whish there was a evil church out there with a better set of conections. With all the temples to Haelyn out there i was kind of likeing Robert Jordens idea of the children of the light. a quasi religius order that walkes around converting to to sword. they view EVERY one else as a enemy or potensional enemy. I think the WIP of Haelyn would be perfect for a plave to base them. have them start aas a affileated order and have them just keep growing out like missinaries. They just move in to save people from the darkness of there souls, next thing you know they have a sourse holding.

24

I think if you are comfortable with the concept than you should make it happen (assuming you are the DM). It makes sense to me that that could occur!

Just another argument of why there could be more gods…when the old gods died, new ones sprung up. If new ones can spring up once, why couldn’t they again?

25

Sent: Friday, June 28, 2002 1:20 PM
marcum uth mather wrote:

> Dont get me wrong BR is my favorit setting of all!!! i just whish there
> was a evil church out there with a better set of conections.

I think the real source of evil in a campaign is supposed (by description)
to come from the abominations and their agents, and not from evil gods. Of
course there is Azrai, and the designers left it an open question whether he
is still out there. Perhaps, a cult of Azrai has X-files-like infiltrated
the courts throughout Cerilia. Perhaps evil in Cerilia is a question of the
local expansion of a dozen powerful abominations. Evil priests are
possible, either through Belinik and Kriesha, Azrai (as in the Hand and
Fingers), and the Serpent seems to grant spells. You point out, “They are
evil and ruthless they just dont have the carisma of like a fr Bane with his
Zenterium.” True, so in that case, simply consider the power of Azrai to be
manifest. Azrai has as much pride and vanity as any dark diety.

Lets not overlook the Cold Rider and a Shadow World based campaign as a possibility. The possibility of peolpe being exchanged with Shadow World equivilents. Imagine a campiagn that starts this way: "Hark, Boeruine and Avanil announce a peace." The PCs eventually learn that both rulers have
been replaced by their shadow world selves, and conspire to make the Cold
Rider emperor, or the Gorgon, or Azrai.

Lets look closely at the White Witch, an abomination in the Rjuik highlands. The realm is guided by an evil force, the White Witch. Rjurik warriors can serve her as they would serve any other realm. Dark druids or clerics of Kriesha (Karasha) are available. Given the WWs emphisis on
guilds, expert theives and assasins to rival Eleole`s might be available.
Her web extends throughout Rjurik lands and she may be extending into
Dhoesone, Cariele, and beyond.

The Gorgon likewise can put every class against PCs, as can a dozen or so powerful abominations. Granted that some like the Siren or the Spider dont
offer the same kind of anchor for a whole campaign against charismatic evil,
many of the abominations do, and they can be as close as you want through
agents and infiltrators.

Kenneth Gauck
kgauck@mchsi.com

So imgine a

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26

I pray to Lord Eldred… but I’m sure it goes to someother in- box…

27

[b]Orginally posted by Sellenus

   I pray to Lord Eldred... but I'm sure it goes to someother in- box...[/b]

You pray to me? You shouldn’t. Haelyn is my God and if you are going to pray you should pray to him. If you want I will pray with you. ::falls to his knees::

28

I’m sorry, but I don’t pray like that… I usually ask for guidance… and Lord Eldred (8,000,000 posts) answers.

29

I am not sure if I should be insulted by your post, Sellenus. I only average 3.7 posts a day.

Now getting back to the original question “is there room for more gods?” What do YOU think Sellenus? Mr. 86 posts? What is your opinion?

While there are 9 people that say no, I am not sure they have legitimate arguments. Plus they need to answer the following:

  1. The new gods arose from old gods? Why can’t more new gods arise?

  2. Who are the evil gods for the rest of the world? Many argue that two is not enough.

  3. What god grants necromancy?

  4. What god covers other specific areas?

  5. Why is Green Knights argument that a bunch of demipowers could easily be placed in Cerilia wrong? In fact why wouldn’t the power released at the great event caused other lesser gods?

  6. Why couldn’t other scions with god power in their blood attain god status?

  7. Have you eliminated the Krakken and Sphinx as possible gods or others like the Gorgon for that matter?

  8. Why does too many gods create a different flavor for Birthright?

  9. As Bryon asks “what of the unexplored area of Birthright, why couldn’t more gods come out of those areas?”

Give me hard core answer as to why we should not have one more stinking god in Birthright!

30

I`m sure that there are other cultures outside Cerilia and maybe even
Aduria that have different pantheons that are truely seperate from the
Cerilian new gods. More inline:

brnetboard@TUARHIEVEL.ORG wrote:

Lord Eldred wrote:

  1. The new gods arose from old gods? Why can`t more new gods arise?

I`m sure more gods can arise. Either a completely new god or a god that
comes in from another culture.

  1. Who are the evil gods for the rest of the world? Many argue that two is not enough.

  2. What god grants necromancy?

I`d personally bring in the Cold Rider as a “new” evil god that covers
necromancy, death, corruption, disease, and maybe a few other things.

> 4. What god covers other specific areas?
>
> 5. Why is Green Knights argument that a bunch of demipowers could easily be placed in Cerilia wrong? In fact why wouldn`t the power released at the great event caused other lesser gods?

  1. Why couldn`t other scions with god power in their blood attain god status?
    >
    > 7. Have you eliminated the Krakken and Sphinx as possible gods or others like the Gorgon for that matter?

I do believe that there are demigods in the world created by having a
fairly high bloodline and being worshipped by followers. The Kraken,
Sphinx, Serpent, and maybe a couple of others are certainly possible, IMO.

> 8. Why does too many gods create a different flavor for Birthright?
>
> 9. As Bryon asks “what of the unexplored area of Birthright, why couldn`t more gods come out of those areas?”

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31

Those answers further support my claim that there can be more gods. Anyone want to explain why there can’t be more gods and answer the questions from my last post?

32

I’m sorry for joking and not answering the questions. I meant no offense…

I wouldn’t say that there couldn’t be new gods, I believe there isn’t a need for new gods. For this I have a couple of reasons…

One of the strengths of BR is the relatively small list of gods, but most have a broad range of allowed alignments. Because of this it is easy to create a character concept and find an existing god to match the idea. Even if the concept is a poor match, the roleplaying aspect makes it worth it. I have yet to create a character who’s ideas and goals couldn’t be tied into an existing god.

Province level dictates the amount of different temple holdings right? (i.e. in a province (4), two different regents might each control 2 levels of temple holdings).So what would adding new gods do to this balance? I would rather see many Temples of Haelyn who’s worship differs throughout Cerilia, rather than have his worship be diluted by several smaller gods each with a small portion of Haelyn’s portfolio. If this province had temples to Bob the god of Lawful Justice, Sue the god of Morning Magic, then there whould be no room for Greater Gods Haelyn or Avani? Granted this example may be a bit foolish, but I’m sure you understand my point.

33

Probably the best argument so far as to why there shouldn’t be more gods. However, what about the uncharted territory? Couldn’t there be room for new gods there?

34

If it didn’t upset any game balance, and if it would add to and improve a game… I don’t see why not. Anything that improves the game should always be possible…

35

brnetboard@TUARHIEVEL.ORG <brnetboard@TUARHIEVEL.ORG> wrote at 02-06-29
00.08:

> Lord Eldred wrote:
> I think if you are comfortable with the concept than you should make it happen
> (assuming you are the DM). It makes sense to me that that could occur!
>
> Just another argument of why there could be more gods…when the old gods
> died, new ones sprung up. If new ones can spring up once, why couldn`t they
> again?
>

A little late on this thread, but this in fact HAS happened; Laerme and
Eloehe were not at Diesmar, but were born afterwards.

/Carl

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36

You are right page 78 of the Rulebook. “Eloele (eh-low-eh-lay) is the daughter of Sera and Rournil. She was born in the early centuries following Deismaar…” “The daughter of Erik and Avani, Laerme appeared in the years after Deismaar.”

Also page 80 implies there are many others “The pantheon of the young gods is recognized across the continent, but the human powers are not the only gods known to the people of Cerilia. Goblins, orogs, gnolls, and other creatures each worship their own powers. The awnsheghlien are even said to secretly swear allegiance to another power even greater than themselves.”

So if the gods can have children and each different creature has their own god who could also have children…the possibilites are limitless!

37

The objections to new gods (and in the interest of full disclosure, I
created two new gods, Denikin the Lord of Death and Makhno the Bringer of
Plague) is generally based in three reservations.

  1. Its not in the published materials. This reservation is pretty
    conservative, but it has some basis. Its conservative because it opposes
    all change. Its basis is that too much change converts your BR campaign into a homebrew which is barely recognizable to BRers.

  2. The system of holdings. If more gods means more clerics (and it doesnt have to) and more clerics means more temples in the holdings system (and it doesnt have to) then more gods means dividing up a fixed number of holdings
    between more factions.

  3. Some people like fewer gods. Fewer gods are easier to learn. More
    people are familiar with the twelve Olympian gods of the Greeks than the
    hundreds of gods of the Romans. Of course the Romans had the same big
    names, and the rest of their gods were small “hearth” gods governing things
    like doorways.

Adding demigods will be easier than adding greater gods because it requires
less of an adjustment to BR cosmology, realm play, and the division of
portfolios. Gods can be added without significantly altering play. That
doesnt mean some wont object to any new gods. As I said earlier any
change seperates players. A certain amount of variation means new ideas are
constantly percolating up for everyone to use, to much variation and we have
erected a tower of Bable.

Kenneth Gauck
kgauck@mchsi.com

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38

In a message dated 2/21/99 2:18:49 PM Central Standard Time,
Jim_Cooper@bc.sympatico.ca writes:

39

JulesMrshn@aol.com wrote:
> Understood, but Goblins are all over the world not just in Cerilia (maybe dwarves are too at least they are IMC). Giving their world wide worship to Belinik would make him much more Powerful.<

This is true, but I feel that more humans practice worshipping (Haelyn)
compared to goblins who do not actively practice (the worship of
Belinik, IMC), and therefore even though there are more goblins Belinik
doesn’t receive more ‘faith’ than Haelyn does (for instance). So,
Belinik still retains ‘Lesser’ Status IMC.

In other words, Belinik might have larger ‘province levels’ (province
values) of ‘lambs’, but Haelyn owns more ‘faithful’ holding-pens
(temples) from his ‘lambs’. Same goes for dwarves. Humans outnumber
them a lot to 1.

Cheers,
Darren

40

In a message dated 2/21/99 8:58:07 PM Central Standard Time,
JulesMrshn@aol.com writes:

> Understood, but Goblins are all over the world not just in Cerilia (maybe
> dwarves are too at least they are IMC). Giving their world wide worship to
> Belinik would make him much more Powerful.
>
Why do you say that? If that were true, shouldn’t there also be dwarves and
elves all over the world?

  • -DKE