> Moradin is a cheif God of an entire dwarf pantheon. He is a
> battle/creator god, like Haelyn, but is also a Forge God like the Greeks Hephestus. And Kartathok is a Greater God who is also head of an entire pantheon, Belinik is an intermediate pudknocker god.<
True enough, but not IMC.
> These 2 are old gods, ones that did not have their essence divided, therefore are very powerfull, barely rivaled by the patron gods, Erik, Haelyn, and Avani.<
Just like you are using dragons to grant priest spells, I too have
changed BR to suit my gaming group. Whereas you are using more and
varied deity entities, I am using less. But only because I want to
focus the game to make to an even more humanocentric pantheon. IMC,
humans are the dominant force, and I’m trying to reflect that.
People worship rocks and statues and call them gods…
People exhalt themselves as gods and make all sorts of false claims…
More important than the question of should their be more gods is, “What is the definition of a “god” in this cosmic foolishness?” If a god simply comes into existence when beings ‘believe’ in it is it truly a god? At what point does it come into existence? Who created Cerilia? If gods draw strength from the number of their followers are/were they powerless without followers or before the existence of man?
id have to say no just because I think having a few gods is what makes Birthright special. I think that some of the demipowers suggested in the books could be explored more, but i like it like Rome. Too many gods would start to turn BR into Forgotten Realms.
I am still interesting in the question about should there be more Gods in BR.
To start off I must say that I like Forgotten Realms, but do not want to see Birthright becoming that.
But there is alot of unexplored area in Birthright. There must be more than just the Gods now talked about.
I believe that there is two or three? blooded regents that are now one the way to becoming gods in the game-The Serpent: Has a church and the priests prays are answered. The ruler in Brechtur, ? name, that has formed a highbreed church in her land that holds back the Swordhawk.
I would go with the idea of only a few major diety, but a bunch of minor ones. I do believe in the idea that faith make or break a god. If enough people believe in a thing as powerful than they make it powerful. Would it ever reach the status of a true god? Probably not, but it will become a lesser power.
There is alot of land and culture unexplored, I would think they have thier own gods. Their is alot of races even in the game now that worship lesser diety-(Goblin Kind and Orog).
So where do we go from here? How do the experts think?
The old gods are the creator gods; so much one can infer from old posts by Rich Baker to the mailing list. By the rules set forth in Deities and Demigods, I suspect that their power would be independent of their worshipers, unlike some other types of pantheons.
Are there other gods that prevail in other lands? There are some gods for other races, so this does not seem unreasonable. However, the full creation history of Cerilia being unrevealed, the status of the various deities and their interrelationship is unrevealed. In 2e, BR was part of the overall Planescape cosmology; in 3e, I think a separate cosmology for BR would be most suitable. Given this, the presence of “universal” gods such as the dwarven Moradin or Yeenoghu of the gnolls seems less acceptable. That can be worked around, though - Moradin could be part of the original pantheon; the minor humanoid gods could be more akin to demon princes, originally in the service of Azrai - there is a lot of potential for adding minor divinites along this line, especially in connection to Azrai, but also to other gods. The upcoming Deities and Demigods measure gods on a rank scale, from 0 to 20 or so; a rank 0 god has basically just a spark of the divine in him; somewhat akin to a solar in power.
I do not believe in adding any major gods, however.
Azrai could potentially be revived; he is the only of the old pantheon without a single direct heir, and the only one that is hinted at being not fully destroyed.
OK so we take this furthur. If there is only the certian amount of Major Gods, 8 right?, and they died at Desmiir. Than what would the other lands think.
Here I am in the Dragon Isle and my god all of a sudden stops answering my prayers, than some other diety manifest himself to me and say that he is the new god??? I think that would throw anyone for a huge loop.
Also, can blooded regents become gods? If we go with the new Deities and Demigods, than they can, but with limited power??? I have not seen the new book.
Lastly, we ask again what makes a god, (Man I want to get the new Deities and Demigods). Does faith make the god or does the god make faith? Can the rock be worshiped by enough people to have it start answering prayers, ie spells?
Hay its a nice looking rock, pretty colors and such…
One day I wasn’t feeling really good, I sat on it to rest and all of a sudden I felt alot better. I started using this as my “special” resting place and continued to feel better. Than as I was sitting there wondering if it would rain so my crops would have water, clouds appeared and it rained for two days.
I told my family and they started coming with me to the rock, we started asking favors as we sat on it and alot of them would come to be.
Now my daughter says we should polish the rock to make it happy, but my son says it must stay as it is for the power to continue. They both have started bringing friend to the rock at continue to debate what should be done.
I know sounds goofy, but is it faith or a god?
(As a side note: as you can tell I believe in only one God. I ask this in referance to the game and for debate)
There’s no special god of healing or of divination (seeing) for example. I think it’s good to create some more. The power I most miss is a power of absolute evil and necromancy (Azrai fills this, but he is dead, or not?)
The cerilian gods are very close connected to a specific land. this makes it realy difficult
to establish an evil cult of krisha or belinik in foreign lands. so in my opinion there should be
more “normal” evil gods in the campaign.
Oh my! You can call me conservative in my ways, but i think that more gods in Cerilia would be awfull. The setting is done, and it is very, very good. I think we should debate more about the existing ones rather than create new gods. The role opportunities are plenty with these we have. More debates in the gods that already exists in Cerilia would be great. Please, don’t let Cerilia become Faerun, with ity’s thousand deities to be worshiped.
Bye
Azrai, can you please explain your rationale for wanting more "normal" evil gods? Why? Why just evil? Define normal.[/b]
one point is that Belinik and Krisha are connected to a specific culture. that makes them exotic
in anuire, they are outsiders per definition. further the two evil gods have not the broad range
of powers which we expect form “evil gods”. what about necromancy for example ?
compared to cuiraecen, belinik is a joke. compare the powers of the spells and the might of the their priests.
An addition aspect is the pure number of gods. only two (three) evil gods are not enougth for
a promising campaign. charismatic leaders like cyric or bane are needed, which are present
in every culture.
of course, no real birthright-fan would prefer FR-like conditions in the pantheon.
