Given how things seem to frequently have costs like 1/12, 1/4, 1/3, 1/6 of a gold bar and generate either 2/3 or 1/3 of a gold bar per season, wouldn’t it be sensible to just multiply everything by 12 and say a gold bar is worth 200 crowns for finance purposes?
Other than legacy, is there any other real reason to have it worth 2000gp?
CM.
From: “CMonkey” <brnetboard@TUARHIEVEL.ORG>
> Other than legacy, is there any other real reason to have it worth
2000gp?
>
I guess the reason is political - it is the only thing we can agree on!
= )
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I would personally like to see the system remove the 1/12, 1/4, 1/3, 1/6 of
a gold bar. That is far to cumbersome and clunky. The system should be
over hauled to use .1, .2, .3, etc of a gold bar.
"What was sundered, shall be remade.
What was stolen, shall be avenged. "
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[b]
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Birthright Roleplaying Game Discussion
> [mailto:BIRTHRIGHT-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM]On Behalf Of CMonkey> Other than legacy, is there any other real reason to have
> it worth 2000gp?
[/b]
You mean other than having to rewrite the whole economy system and price
values? Do you really think that 200gp/GB is realistic given what a GB buys?
I can understand perhaps reducing it to 1000 gp to ease computation
(although I personally don`t find using 2000 all that difficult), but I seem
to remember someone arguing once that based on what a GB buys, it actually
should be worth something like 5000 gp.
Of course, Im also of the opinion that the purchasing power of 1 gp in Faerun or Oerth should be about equal to 2 sp in Cerilia, which means that 1 GB (2000 gp Cerilian) would buy you about 10,000 gp worth of goods and services out of the PHB. And thats even MORE complicated.
Mark V.
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Originally posted by Trevyr
You mean other than having to rewrite the whole economy system and price
values? Do you really think that 200gp/GB is realistic given what a GB buys?
No, that’s completely missing the point. I mean multiply everything by 12; so a shipyard will cost 48 gold bars per level, a ferry will cost 12, a highway in the plains will cost 24 GB and so on. Thus the maintainance for a ferry is now 1 GB instead of 1/12, law holdings generate 4 GB a season per level and so forth. Nothings actual cost has changed at all.
The other stuff would be complex to do, this would be not.
CM.
‘Mini-Goldbars’ could work for some, and if you called them ‘Tradebars’ you could use them in conjunction with goldbars, and not need change a thing.
edit:Then you could claim that TBs are worth 200 and GBs 2400.
See the description of what a GB is in the playtest document. It is an abstract. It is not supposed to reflect strictly money but also goods and other things that are of value. This was a subject discussed on the discussion boards for quite some time, as I recall.
The fractions are of course hard to deal with easily and should definitely be looked at in more detail.
I agree with CMonkey.
Having smaller gold bars makes sense even ingame terms. Why have heavy gold bars you got to keep cutting in half when you could just have smaller gold bars.
Originally posted by ecliptic
I agree with CMonkey.Having smaller gold bars makes sense even ingame terms. Why have heavy gold bars you got to keep cutting in half when you could just have smaller gold bars.
See the description of what a GB is in the playtest document. It is an abstract. It is not supposed to reflect strictly money but also goods and other things that are of value. This was a subject discussed on the discussion boards for quite some time, as I recall.
Whats the point in bringing BR to D20 if noone ever wants to improve anything?
Originally posted by ecliptic
Whats the point in bringing BR to D20 if noone ever wants to improve anything?
What are you refering to exactly?
What I was pointing out was that a GB shouldn’t be considered to be a solid chunck of gold. This was discussed for a long time on the discussion boards. By not considering it a solid chunck of gold but rather an aggregate of commodities and money this is indeed an improvement and makes sense from a medieval setting standpoint where many things were bought with barter and trade goods.
I mean it should be wrote up as a big chunk of gold that players can carry in their backpack aswell as a king can spend it on supplies.
ecliptic wrote:
>This post was generated by the Birthright.net message forum.
> You can view the entire thread at: http://www.birthright.net/read.php?TID=1504
>ecliptic wrote:
> I agree with CMonkey.
>Having smaller gold bars makes sense even ingame terms. Why have heavy gold bars you got to keep cutting in half when you could just have smaller gold bars.
>
I thought there are no Gold Bars existing as gold bars, but only as a
matter to put a value on a large amount of stuff, like grain in silos?
Really nothing else than a letter of credit saying “2000 gp worth of
tools, weapons and whatever” = 1 Gold Bar.
bye
Michael Romes
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On Thu, 17 Apr 2003, ecliptic wrote:
> Whats the point in bringing BR to D20 if noone ever wants to improve
> anything?
s a conversion. Its supposed to retain the trappings and feel of theCommunication is possible only between equals.
Daniel McSorley- mcsorley@cis.ohio-state.edu
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ecliptic wrote:
>This post was generated by the Birthright.net message forum.
> You can view the entire thread at: http://www.birthright.net/read.php?TID=1504
>ecliptic wrote:
> I mean it should be wrote up as a big chunk of gold that players can carry in their backpack aswell as a king can spend it on supplies.
>
This would make sense in that it would allow regents to steal treasure
of another regent with an espionage action, or some rogues to sneak into
the treasure chamber to carry off some heavy bars of gold.
However it would as much be possible to steal a silo full of grain or a
herd of cattle, considering that an action is a month of time.
bye
Michael Romes
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Only the most desperate would steal grain or cows. Especially when they could steal gold, much easier to carry away at that.
Originally posted by ecliptic
Only the most desperate would steal grain or cows. Especially when they could steal gold, much easier to carry away at that. :)
But not as useful if one is trying to feed a starving community.
Also in 2nd ed BR they (the authors) made it a big point to reflect that GBs are not used as direct currency, which is why it took a Finance action to convert GB into gp which could be spent. This is one of the reasons that the BR community had gone to the general consensus that a GB was not a bar of gold but more of an abstract unit of measure of wealth that could be spent on the domain level.
The other question is if one stole a bar of gold - where would one spend it? Most establishments wouldn’t have enough goods or money to make any change and wouldn’t be able to “get rid” of the bar after they acquired it.
On Fri, 18 Apr 2003, ecliptic wrote:
> Only the most desperate would steal grain or cows.
On the level of a province regent, perhaps. But I suspect the various
clans and tribes of the Rjurik and Khinasi nomads, and all the Vos and
goblins, spend a great deal of time stealing each others livestock -- thats just what mobile wealth is in an agricultural society. If you
adventure in such a place, and have any connection to the community you
live among, you are almost certainly a part-time cattle rustler. Many
regents in those lands will have been on cattle raids in their youth, and
may still occasionally lead them as part of their duties of rulership.
Ryan Caveney
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Originally posted by irdeggman
[quote][i]Originally posted by ecliptic[/i] I agree with CMonkey.Having smaller gold bars makes sense even ingame terms. Why have heavy gold bars you got to keep cutting in half when you could just have smaller gold bars.
See the description of what a GB is in the playtest document. It is an abstract. It is not supposed to reflect strictly money but also goods and other things that are of value. This was a subject discussed on the discussion boards for quite some time, as I recall.
[/quote]
Seeing as the GB is abstract there is therefore no reason NOT to times everything by 12 and make bookkeeping purely integere based. The value of the bar is of no concequence. in the book keeping phase of things the only thing that need to be addressed is how much “cash” a GB trnaslates to when a regent coverts GB in to gold pieces or gp into gold bars.
Therefore by saying a GB is worth 200 gp and that if the finance option is used then a regent can covert 50 GB + 10 GB per level of guild has no change in the game, Except to ease book keeping.
This is a possitive change as there is no hassel gealing with non similar fractions.
> ecliptic wrote:
> Only the most desperate would steal grain or cows.
>
There is no need to be desperate in order to steal cattle.
Cattle-raiding was considered a honorable noble occupation during the early
middle ages. From Ireland to Arabia, it was a universal and accepted way for
a poor noble or tribe to gain wealth and/or status.
Grain is more of a problem, since it can`t walk by itself. Plundered grain
is more useful as supplies for an advancing army. Large-scale grain
shipments over more than local areas can only be done by ship.
/Carl
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