Good Pbems?

Originally posted by Eric Saxon@Jan 1 2004, 05:02 AM

Otherwise, I advise everyone else to avoid the game and those DMs. I also quit playing PBEMs because (I BELIEVE) these people play as a team in other PBEMs.

Heed mr Saxon’s advice and avoid PBEMs altogether. The evil team of LEBR will inevitably conquer your PBEM mwahhahahaha. We are spawns of Azrai that seek to dominate all life mwhahahahaha. Fear, terror and PBEM domination is our game.

BTW. mr Saxon prefers to settle diplomatic negotiations after a war OOC to “save time”. Yep, that’s roleplaying 101 for ye

On Sat, 3 Jan 2004, Kalak wrote:

> Yep, that`s roleplaying 101 for ye

You know what, no one cares. Take your crap from an IC game off the

forum.

–

Daniel McSorley

I honestly don’t care if anyone cares or not. I do however respond when attacked. I won’t continue with it though

Originally posted by Kalak@Jan 3 2004, 04:51 PM
[b] [QUOTE=Eric Saxon,Jan 1 2004, 05:02 AM]

BTW. mr Saxon prefers to settle diplomatic negotiations after a war OOC to “save time”. Yep, that’s roleplaying 101 for ye [/b]

Huh?

Really?

Amazing?

I was playing Halskapa in LEBR. And I don’t remember fighting any wars in that game. Actually, I have been involved in only 2 wars in all the PBEMs I have played and none of those wars were ever resolved, since the games went dead in both those turns and neither one was at a point of a peace resolution. So let me ask you, when you are speaking about MR. Saxon are you talking about me or maybe one of the other two Mr. Saxons I have met in the game. I don’t mind someone talking smack I would just like them to get their info correct. I am ERIC there is also an Adam and the third I forgot.

Are you sure you know who you are talking about?

Wow. Depressing.

If any game lends itself to the PBEM model, I would think it would be Birthright. I love the game, love the system–especially the new 3e BRCS, AWESOME work, guys!–and would LOVE to find a good PBEM.

Alas, I have just spent hours searching in vain for a single active Birthright PBEM that uses the new 3e rules. The only one I can find that seems to be running well and is accepting players is RoE–but they appear to use 2nd edition rules. Bleh. 3e is so much better and simpler I’d rather stick with it.

So, despite Birthright being a truly turn-based game that should have promising PBEMs all over the net, there’s pretty much nothing. Must I bury my dreams?

Unless I am wrong. ARE there any 3e PBEMS? Will they/have they survived the first or second turns? Are they accepting new players?

Night of Fire looked incredibly promising, but it is dead, too, due to health and time problems of the DM.

In case you hadn’t noticed, I’m fairly desperate for a BR game. I’ve never actually gotten the chance to play one for any length (beyond 4 sessions), despite DMing them myself.

Can anyone help me out? PLEASE? I just want some (BR) play!

As it was said above the www.birthrightonline.com game lasts… our first game lasted for 40turns and upon its completion after half a year or so we began the second game… (the players knew about it and most of the old ones came over to the new one)

You can try the game yourself and form your own unbiased opinion…

Originally posted by Rowan@Jan 24 2004, 10:34 AM
Alas, I have just spent hours searching in vain for a single active Birthright PBEM that uses the new 3e rules. The only one I can find that seems to be running well and is accepting players is RoE–but they appear to use 2nd edition rules. Bleh. 3e is so much better and simpler I’d rather stick with it.

Hmm, I’m not sure why RoE appears to be 2e. The game should be completely 3.5e compliant by now (not that it is much of a change from 3e). That said everybody should please note that the game does not use the BRCS conversion found at BR.net. Instead it uses our own conversion and a number of house rules.

If you are interested you are free to join and have a look around.

Cheers,
Even

My apologies. Birthrightonline is 2e (which I cannot stomach), not RoE. RoE does look interesting, and it may be the only 3e possibility out there (though I dearly hope that Night of Fire gets restarted). However, there are a LOT of different rules and house rules in RoE.

While many of those seem good or useful, I still think I prefer BRCS. With only a slight amount of tweaking, BRCS provides a very easy to learn and use, simple and elegant system that is a good (enough) reflection of reality while providing a lot of flexibility (again, kudos to the game designers).

RoE rules run the risk of being or becoming too cumbersome, or simply being too varied. The great advance of 3e over 2e DnD was how the system was streamlined and made simple yet flexible. While the 3e system format still bears some huge inherent handicaps that will always lead to mass proliferation of things like classes, feats and spells, it was overall much easier to understand and balance well than 2e was.

All reasons why I can never go back to 2e (and hence, birthrightonline). I just worry that RoE will have similar difficulties. I’m willing to give it a try.

On Sat, 24 Jan 2004, Rowan wrote:

> My apologies. Birthrightonline is 2e (which I cannot stomach), not

> RoE. RoE does look interesting, and it may be the only 3e possibility

> out there (though I dearly hope that Night of Fire gets restarted).

> However, there are a LOT of different rules and house rules in RoE.

Its been a while since Ive played in a BR PBEM, but I`ve got to say –

how exactly does the underlying RPG system matter at all? Do you really

go on adventure actions that often? In my experience, PBEM BR is best

when it uses only domain rules, with as little reference to individual

character stats as possible. I find it difficult to imagine 2e vs. 3e

having much of an effect on the domain scale, especially in a PBEM.

As for house rules, they come naturally with the territory. Finding a BR

DM anywhere without lots of house rules is almost impossible, since the

original rules left a whole lot of things wide open to interpretation –

and specific decisions about such things (I will not at this point mention

by name any of the many ancient debates) need to be made in order to play.

And once you`ve made all the necessary clarifications, you start to make

what you consider “fixes” (because there do seem to be rather a lot of

goofs or false leads, and there is great disagreement about what counts as

such, of course), and by then who can resist the temptation to add

whatever other things they think would be fun? =)

> The great advance of 3e over 2e DnD was how the system was streamlined

> and made simple yet flexible.

Which is essentially invisible at the domain scale of play. Literally the

only PHB-scale information about a character actually necessary to play

the domain game is class and level. That`s it. Yes, 2e and 3e have

different rules on what combinations are allowed to whom, but almost every

rule change (e.g., whether better armor means a negative AC or a positive

one) important to dungeon-crawling gameplay is totally irrelevant to

domain-ruling gameplay. War Cards, if you use them, do allow spellcasters

to cast certain specific spells, but since at that scale there is no

difference between fireball and lightning bolt, nor between cloudkill and

prismatic spray, the changes made to the spell lists are not very

important either – but I`ve never known a PBEM that let the players run

the war card battles from round to round. That would take way too much

time and too many back-and-forth messages.

> While the 3e system format still bears some huge inherent handicaps

> that will always lead to mass proliferation of things like classes,

> feats and spells, it was overall much easier to understand and balance

> well than 2e was.

Again, this is pretty much moot for domain rulership. Neither standard

Cleave nor the latest Super-Cool Neato Peachy Keen Cleave have any

important (nor really even measurable) effect on battles with 5,000

men-at-arms per side.

> All reasons why I can never go back to 2e (and hence, birthrightonline).

Again I must question whether any of the changes in the adventuring party

ruleset can even be noticed at the domain scale. Give the 2e PBEMs a

chance – they really cant be all that different. There just isnt that

much that was “2e” about the parts of BR readily gameable by email.

Ryan Caveney

I was using the brief rant about 2e vs. 3e adventuring rules as an example of my reluctance to join either an old school AD&D BR game or a new version that has much departure from the simple, streamlined beauty of BRCS.

I agree, the underlying rules, as far as adventuring goes, don’t matter to the playability of Birthright in PBEM. However, BRCS and, I believe, most new versions of BR domain rules based on the d20 system are superior in my eyes to the AD&D BR domain ruleset.

Basically, with something as much more playable as BRCS than AD&D BR, I’d rather not go back to AD&D BR. For one thing, there were a lot more factors to keep track of (like die rolls for taxes and the old maintenance cost system) that weren’t easily interrelated (like in a d20 resolution system).

BRCS might not be perfect, but I think it’s very flexible and certainly playable (and makes sense, once you correct minor things like the maintenance cost of stone bridges).

So, anyone playing in a good BRCS PBEM, or would be interested in starting one (with multiple DMs to help avoid crashing and burning in d4-1 turns)?