I think Kenzer & Co. got the license but is using it to expand their Hackmaster line. You guessed it, it’s called Hackright.
From K&C catalogue
HackRight K&C2123 $34.99 WRITING
what are you saying?
Originally posted by teloft@Feb 7 2004, 08:04 AM
what are you saying?
This has been unfolding for almost a year now I think, altough I havn’t been keeping track of it closely. KenzerCo seems to be producing Hackmaster versions of several of the old TSR campaign worlds, including Birthright. Supposedly, the KenzerCo version of Birthright, “Hackright,” comes out at some point this year.
Not having played Hackmaster I can’t make any judgement on the system, but I can say that I’m not entirely happy about it. Even if WotC started putting out BR again, I wouldn’t be entirely happy unless all the old authors were working on it. In my mind, BR has creatively expanded a great deal since its cancellation largely because its been in the hands of the fans. For example, a great deal of about Anuirean society has been worked out by a number of fans, including myself.
As well, now that this is happening, I have to seriously question the future of the whole BRCS and d20 Atlas project. Will WotC allow us to continue? Will any product we produce no longer be “official” but simply be fan produced fiction (and thus no longer allowing us the use of copy-righted material)? Will a seperate and completely new BR community growing up around the Hackmaster game eventually drain this one and eventually kill it?
At 09:04 PM 2/7/2004 +0100, Fearless_Leader wrote:
>As well, now that this is happening, I have to seriously question the
>future of the whole BRCS and d20 Atlas project. Will WotC allow us to
>continue? Will any product we produce no longer be “official”
>but simply be fan produced fiction (and thus no longer allowing us the use
>of copy-righted material)? Will a seperate and completely new BR
>community growing up around the Hackmaster game eventually drain this one
>and eventually kill it?
While I sympathize with the sentiment and concerns expressed… hasn`t this
always been the case? I mean, WotC could step in any time and say they
were going to reissue the line, rerelease it as D20, or simply say they
felt it was harming their overall product line for BR to be a fan produced,
free product and shut down the efforts of the folks putting together the
conversion or otherwise creating fan produced materials. Such a thing
might be a bit more proximate with Hackmaster BR materials, but I don`t
really think so really since it is a different set of rules, and the tide
of this kind of thing would appear to be against such a move by the WotC
execs. That is, fan produced material is such a mainstay of gaming (and a
lot of entertainment industry) that an attempt to return to the days of
“copyright protectionism” would be very difficult to justify–let alone
enact. It`d make the current round of record companies suing individual
Internet users for downloading MP3`s look like a cake walk.
In the long run, if the Hackmaster version of things becomes more popular
then that really only justifies the decision to go with an open source
philosophy for the material in the first place. I don`t think we should
worry overmuch about the actual game mechanics applied to the setting
itself, since individuals can (and have) already applied a wide variety of
rules to the setting in the BR community. It seems unlikely that such a
trend will stop because of yet another set of rules being used. Hackmaster
stuff may become dominant (though, I somehow doubt it) but on the whole the
BR community itself doesn`t really suffer for that.
Gary
Originally posted by geeman@Feb 7 2004, 01:20 PM
Hackmaster stuff may become dominant (though, I somehow doubt it) but on the whole the BR community itself doesn`t really suffer for that.
Perhaps. Perhaps not.
While I certainly agree with most of your points, this move nevertheless makes me very nervous. Perhaps I’m being overly cynical, but it would truly not surprise me if WotC came in and reversed themselves on allowing official sites for canceled lines to exist.
My other big question is why Hackmaster? A number of old TSR lines have gained new life in the d20 system (such as Ravenloft and Gamma World). I honestly can’t understand why WotC would allow another company to produce an old line in a system other than d20. Especially when KenzerCo has shown itself able to produce an ostenively successful d20/ official D&D line with Kingdoms of Kalamar.
There are a lot of things that could happen, but I find it hard to believe
that new players who discover a “HackRight” would simply ignore this
community entirely. Star Trek has gone through FASA, Last Unicorn, and is
now with Decipher and its fans just adapt to new role playing systems. Some
play the old FASA system, some play the new Decipher system, and so forth,
but that`s hardly something we would balk at. There is only one official BR
product in one system, but players who frequent this forum play other
systems and some have kept the setting current with a conversion to 3.x. If
you wanted to start a BR discussion on most standard game systems someone
would be here to tell you that they started working on it (and probably
never got finished). What is one more system? We are hardly system
specific. So what if one more system gets added to the mix. If it draws
new people to the BR that we know. If the new people dont like whats
going on here, we know its a Shadow World phenomena, and that it heralds
Azrai`s Return. Have a nice day.
Kenneth Gauck
I suppose my posts might make it seem like I’m more worried than I actually am, though I do remain uneasy, not so much for the rules, but for the actual creative setting themes themselves. Star Trek can move from company to company, but it’s still Star Trek. No one’s going to change that setting simply for the reason that its Star Trek.
Though my posts might make me look reactionary, I can tell you I am far from that. What I’m trying to get express is that I am not excited about this new BR material. What I’m trying to express is trepidation.
> While I certainly agree with most of your points, this move nevertheless
makes me very nervous. Perhaps I`m being overly cynical, but it would truly
not surprise me if WotC came in and reversed themselves on allowing official
sites for canceled lines to exist.
You mean exactly what they just did to Athas.org? Only a few months after
Athas.org released the “official” fan written Dark Sun Conversion, Wizards
has given Dragon and Dungeon the go ahead to develop the official conversion
for the April issues of those mags. The fan sites and their fan made
creations are far from the only official material. If Wizards decides its
more financially sound to sell the material or lease it out then they
will… thats just business.
> My other big question is why Hackmaster?
Because they paid to license the 2e and 1e material for Hackmaster. Money
talks…
-Anakin Miller
Originally posted by Anakin_Miller@Feb 7 2004, 03:00 PM
Because they paid to license the 2e and 1e material for Hackmaster. Money talks
While I was unaware of this and I’m certainly not argueing against “Money talks”, I don’t think Hackmaster is capable of doing a good job. It’s a tongue and cheek system that borders on a gigantic joke. Not really appropriate for Birthright, Darksun, or any number of other settings. “Money talks” only works when one doesn’t ignore the fans and sacrifice quality control.
What I fully expect is to see products with goofy pictures on the front with names like “Road to Diz’Aster” (to name a product on the KenzerCo catalogue).
----- Original Message -----
From: “Fearless_Leader” <brnetboard@BIRTHRIGHT.NET>
Sent: Saturday, February 07, 2004 5:10 PM
> What I fully expect is to see products with goofy pictures on the
> front with names like “Road to Diz`Aster” (to name a
product on the KenzerCo catalogue).
That`s the nature of a parody. But its hardly a lack of quality
control, its a … a parody. But even under the worst case scenario, the
Loonies who like to play a game that is a parody, might well get some of the
other kinds of players in their group to turn back to BR.
I am, however, not convicned that Hackmaster really is a parody. I think it
may well be a game system that functions as a parody (intentionally) as well
as a legitimate game system. In any event, parodies are funnier to those
people who know what is being made fun of, so not only is it designed for
us, but it might well draw folks in who what to see what all the guffaw`s
are about.
Kenneth Gauck
Fearless_Leader:
> Even if WotC started putting out BR again, I wouldn`t be entirely happy
unless all the old authors were working on it.
Looks like some of us are out of luck then…
Theyd probably not enjoy me pimping other peoples game rules anyway 
In my mind, BR has creatively expanded a great deal since its cancellation
largely because its been in the hands of the fans. For example, a great deal
of about Anuirean society has been worked out by a number of fans, including
myself.
Hear! Hear!
I personally spend more time pondering the intricacies of the BR-L archives
than I do the PSes these days.
As well, now that this is happening, I have to seriously question the
future of the whole BRCS and d20 Atlas project. Will WotC allow us to
continue? Will any product we produce no longer be “official”
but simply be fan produced fiction (and thus no longer allowing us the
use of copy-righted material)? Will a seperate and completely new BR
community growing up around the Hackmaster game eventually drain this
one and eventually kill it?
Is Kenzer buying the whole ex-TSR back catalogue of BR stuff too?
That`s interesting…
I`m not particularly worried if my work on BR is considered to be “fan”
or “home rules”; codfication of several people`s “home-rules” is all that
campaign setting really is anyway. Official badges are nice, but lack of them
will not stop me playing and thinking about BR; or using the books that I
purchased to support my playing and thinking.
–
John Machin
(trithemius@paradise.net.nz)
“Nothing is more beautiful than to know the All.”
The Great Art of Knowledge.Gary:
> It`d make the current round of record companies suing individual
Internet users for downloading MP3`s look like a cake walk.
An interesting OT aside: A British music company (and one of my favourite
producers of music) Warp Records recently released their catalogue as higher
than normal quality MP3s through an online store. They have no copy-protection
mechanisms used at all because, so they say, they do not wish to treat their
consumers like potential criminals. They say that they hope that the
opportunity to buy cds in this format, and to buy single tracks, will encourage
their listeners to not steal music, but instead buy it easily online directly
from them.
> In the long run, if the Hackmaster version of things becomes more
> popular then that really only justifies the decision to go with an open source
> philosophy for the material in the first place. I don`t think we should
worry overmuch about the actual game mechanics applied to the setting
itself, since individuals can (and have) already applied a wide variety
of rules to the setting in the BR community. It seems unlikely that such a
trend will stop because of yet another set of rules being used.
Hackmaster stuff may become dominant (though, I somehow doubt it) but on the
whole the BR community itself doesn`t really suffer for that.
Indeed. Some of us were talking about weird things even back in 2e days! I`d
welcome any new products as fuel for the fires, but I don`t anticipate dropping
all my own efforts to date just because a new edition is produced by
sonmeone. 
–
John Machin
(trithemius@paradise.net.nz)
“Nothing is more beautiful than to know the All.”
The Great Art of Knowledge.Kenneth Gauck:
> There are a lot of things that could happen, but I find it hard to
> believe that new players who discover a “HackRight” would simply ignore this
> community entirely. Star Trek has gone through FASA, Last Unicorn, and
> is now with Decipher and its fans just adapt to new role playing systems.
> Some play the old FASA system, some play the new Decipher system, and so
> forth, but that`s hardly something we would balk at. There is only one
official BR product in one system, but players who frequent this forum play
other systems and some have kept the setting current with a conversion to 3.x.
If you wanted to start a BR discussion on most standard game systems
someone would be here to tell you that they started working on it (and
probably never got finished). What is one more system? We are hardly system
specific. So what if one more system gets added to the mix. If it draws
new people to the BR that we know. If the new people don
t like whats
going on here, we know its a Shadow World phenomena, and that it
heralds Azrai`s Return. Have a nice day.
FASA Star Trek is a Shadow World phenomenon. I had a six hour game of it once,
a while back… hold on… it wasn`t a game - it was character creation. And I
don`t mean I spent six hours writing my background either.
To drag myself back on topic; what other systems have people tried to `port BR
to? I have thought about Ars Magic (shock!); Hero Wars/Quest; BRP; -Storyteller
System-; and various homebrews. None of them ever got completely finished. How
about the rest of you? I remember Lyndon B. talking about Pendragon ages ago…
–
John Machin
(trithemius@paradise.net.nz)
“Nothing is more beautiful than to know the All.”
The Great Art of Knowledge.Does anyone know much about the guys behind Kenzer Co?
Are they hiring? ;D
But really, perhaps if someone could drop them a line or hit their forums (if
they have them) with some good questions we could find out whether we need to
be happy or terrified.
I might go see what I can find out myself, before the university decides I have
had enough internet for the day…
–
John Machin
(trithemius@paradise.net.nz)
“Nothing is more beautiful than to know the All.”
The Great Art of Knowledge.I don’t think there is all that much to worry about. Personally I would like to see more products for BR made no matter the rules system. Kenzer has also made a ravenloft product, without that stopping Arthaus from publishing lots of products for it. Most likely this will not mount to more than one book for Hackmaster (I hope I’m wrong), and Brithright will fall back into the obscurity of the fan domain.
Cheers,
Don E
----- Original Message -----
From: “Don E” <brnetboard@BIRTHRIGHT.NET>
To: <BIRTHRIGHT-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sent: Sunday, February 08, 2004 6:56 AM
Subject: Re: [BIRTHRIGHT] HackRight [2#2253]
> This post was generated by the Birthright.net message forum.
> You can view the entire thread at:
> http://www.birthright.net/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=2&t=2253
>
> Don E wrote:
> I don`t think there is all that much to worry about. Personally I would
like to see more products for BR made no matter the rules system. Kenzer has
also made a ravenloft product, without that stopping Arthaus from publishing
lots of products for it. Most likely this will not mount to more than one
book for Hackmaster (I hope I`m wrong), and Brithright will fall back into
the obscurity of the fan domain.
>
Does anyone know how much Hackright is Birthright–my suspicion of slight
parody makes it completely not useable for me and has no interest but if it
is Birthright without parody–then perhaps it will be worthwhile.
(Although personallly I find the humor inherent in Hackmaster rather
juvenile.)
On Sun, 8 Feb 2004, John Machin wrote:
> To drag myself back on topic; what other systems have people tried to
> `port BR to? I have thought about Ars Magic (shock!); Hero Wars/Quest;
BRP; -Storyteller System-; and various homebrews. None of them ever got
completely finished. How about the rest of you? I remember Lyndon B.
talking about Pendragon ages ago…
I think an interesting BR-type game could be done with Exalted, which is a
second or third generation version of the storyteller games. Characters
in exalted are heros imbued by the gods with magical powers. Change it to
be hereditary, and you`ve pretty much got the BR setup. Actually, the
Dragon-blooded in exalted are hereditary, but I find the Solars more fun
to play with.
It`s already got semi-builtin systems for handling domains, too; a
combination of the Resources trait, to handle money income, and treating
the population as a version of the Cult trait, which lets you regain
Essense (magical energy, used for powers) for having followers, and you`re
about set. It`s rather more abstract than BR itself, but the focus in
exalted is rather less on micromanagement, and more on crazy heroic
action.
Id need to do some charm trees for domain level stuff, but that wouldnt
be a problem really.
There`s a book coming up for it that is supposed to have mass combat
rules, too.
Hmm. I may have to put more thought into this.
–
Daniel McSorley
----- Original Message -----
From: “Daniel McSorley” <mcsorley@OKKOD.PAIR.COM>
To: <BIRTHRIGHT-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sent: Sunday, February 08, 2004 1:17 PM
Subject: Re: [BIRTHRIGHT] HackRight [2#2253]
> On Sun, 8 Feb 2004, John Machin wrote:
> > To drag myself back on topic; what other systems have people tried to
> > `port BR to? I have thought about Ars Magic (shock!); Hero Wars/Quest;
BRP; -Storyteller System-; and various homebrews. None of them ever got
completely finished. How about the rest of you? I remember Lyndon B.
talking about Pendragon ages ago…
Pendragon would probably be pretty decent. I`ve done some work on Gurps
(using Gurps Supers for Blood Powers), and have been working on my private
Birthright Saga (I`m trying to find enough in game book art that prints
cleanly enough to make cards..all for only my own use of course.) I like
Saga but adapted it having two suits per archetype (Warriors, Keeps being
one set based on combat and defence. Wizards/Towers, magic and learning,
Priests/Temples, Faith and Community, and Rogues/Guilds for stealth and
commerce…
Someday I will finish it 
In a message dated 2/7/04 8:37:12 PM Eastern Standard Time,
trithemius@PARADISE.NET.NZ writes:
<< Indeed. Some of us were talking about weird things even back in 2e days!
I`d
welcome any new products as fuel for the fires, but I don`t anticipate
dropping
all my own efforts to date just because a new edition is produced by
sonmeone. >>
Hear, hear. If there are new BR products coming, great! If it turns out
they suck (and well hear about it here), well, then I wont buy them. Enough
people do that, and it`s back to being a fan-only world again.
Lee.
Originally posted by Elton Robb@Feb 7 2004, 02:55 AM
[b] Here’s something I found on Wizards Chat, and KenzerCo’s catalog. I’m very angry now.I think Kenzer & Co. got the license but is using it to expand their Hackmaster line. You guessed it, it’s called Hackright.
I swear (but not profanely), what was thought to be a parody that was based on a fictional RPG from their long-running comic book (“Knights of the Dinner Table”) is seriously becoming a legitimate game product.
From K&C catalogue
HackRight K&C2123 $34.99 WRITING [/b]
I talked to Foundry Dwarf (kenzo staff) a while ago (may 2003) when i found a Post on kenzo’s forum.
i just went there again and found out that A freelancer !?! took the stuff made by Dwarf, and made a new manuscript using HackMaster rules.
Further i have no idea of it, i havnt been contacted or so what.
A.