Discussion thread for Nietier. If you would like to add a comment, click the Post Reply button.
According to the Wiki, the Boeruine province of Nietier is ruled by Albion Stoneaxe, a dwarf. The wiki page for Albion says he is married to Dáire Khorien, daughter of Roger Khorien and Aurelia Boeruine. The page for Dáire says
[quote]
His daughter, Dáire is married to Count Albion Stoneaxe of Nietier and is concerned with her family and their political fortunes in Boeruine.
[\quote]
Um, can this all be true if he is a dwarf and she is a human? What do the TSR publications say about him?
Sorontar
According to the Wiki, the Boeruine province of Nietier is ruled by Albion Stoneaxe, a dwarf. The wiki page for Albion says he is married to Dáire Khorien, daughter of Roger Khorien and Aurelia Boeruine. The page for Roger says
His daughter, Dáire is married to Count Albion Stoneaxe of Nietier and is concerned with her family and their political fortunes in Boeruine.
Um, can this all be true if he is a dwarf and she is a human? What do the TSR publications say about him?
Sorontar
According to the Wiki, the Boeruine province of Nietier is ruled by Albion Stoneaxe, a dwarf. The wiki page for Albion says he is married to Dáire Khorien, daughter of Roger Khorien and Aurelia Boeruine. The page for Roger says
“His daughter, Dáire is married to Count Albion Stoneaxe of Nietier and is concerned with her family and their political fortunes in Boeruine.”
Um, can this all be true if he is a dwarf and she is a human? What do the TSR publications say about him?
Sorontar
If I’m not mistaken, Albion Stoneaxe is the invention of Elton, and Dáire Khorien is mine. I may have overlooked the Dwarven heritage of Dáire’s bridegroom. I’ll see about moving her to someone more suitable.
At 12:34 AM 5/15/2008, Sorontar wrote:
>According to the Wiki, the Boeruine province of
>Nietier is ruled by Albion Stoneaxe, a dwarf.
>The wiki page for Albion says he is married to
>Dáire Khorien, daughter of Roger Khorien and Aurelia Boeruine.
Technically, theres no real BR reason they couldnt be “married” in a legal, theological or
even personal sense that I know of. It would be
a pretty controversial pairing, though.
It would be interesting if Albion Stoneaxe was a
“dwarf” as in “little person” though, wouldnt it? His name is very dwarf-sounding, of course, and Im sure he was meant to be an actual BR
dwarf, but it would make for a highly
characteristic situation. There are some D20
rules for such things in the adaptation of Martin`s Fire & Ice series…
Gary
Love to see more about “The Defiance of Men”. sounds like a cool site!
Cargaroth said:
Love to see more about “The Defiance of Men”.
Well, it’s rather ironic a title if it is commanded by a dwarf!
Sorontar
As an interesting point, I sometimes wonder if dwarves - and for that matter elves - are recognised as another race, rather than as short stocky men and slender tall people respectively.
Katherine Kerr comments on this in the Deverry saga - the elves are seen as people who crop their ears as a cultural trait and lie about immortality…
Personally I see wealth, class and power being at least as important as race in the marriage stakes - a dwarf might find a good marriage difficult and some doors closed to them - but power attracts power and class is all about power…
That is a major irony. I really laughed out loud! LOL
Spoke with Elton and Dáire Khorien is now married to Harran Tielen of Rivien. I think I was matching bloodlines and overlooked the race of Albion. Probabaly took Stoneaxe to be a nickname. Now that I think about it, yeah that’s obviously dwarven.
At 01:59 PM 5/16/2008, AndrewTall wrote:
>As an interesting point, I sometimes wonder if dwarves - and for
>that matter elves - are recognised as another race, rather than as
>short stocky men and slender tall people respectively.
>
>Katherine Kerr comments on this in the Deverry saga - the elves are
>seen as people who crop their ears as a cultural trait and lie about
>immortality…
Well, in the context of BR in which races of humans are
differentiated pretty clearly and have different stats that game
mechanically differ from how issues of “race” are normally handled,
the elves and dwarves would have to be considered something else
entirely. D&D shies away from actually saying things about “race”
and what we would attributed to differences of species or even genus,
but in that sense we might classify them as homo sylvanus or homo
chthon, or something along those lines.
Mythologically, races like dwarves and elves often both fit into a
category of “fae” or similar magical races. The differences between
them are distinct and would appear obvious from the human POV, but
their bodies are a sort of not-so-subtle manifestations of what would
probably be viewed as subtle expressions of their true, spiritual
forms. They would remain very distinctly different from humans, though.
So, all that said, I do like the idea that they are a culture more
than a race per se. Its hard to overlook the differences between humans and BR elves and dwarves in the sense that those races have characteristics like immortality, the ability to survive on a diet of minerals, etc. but its an entertaining notion.
>Personally I see wealth, class and power being at least as important
>as race in the marriage stakes - a dwarf might find a good marriage
>difficult and some doors closed to them - but power attracts power
>and class is all about power…
There certainly have been some very strange marriages in human
history that are based on those issues rather than anything we might
consider a modern, legitimate marriage…
The real question to me, though, is “Is such a thing within the
flavour of Birthright?” That is, does the emphasis on the political
level of play in the setting rise to the level of expressing things
like political marriages to the extreme of inter-species alliance
through marriage? Does that political emphasis go to the level that
it should be used in place of the existing BR materials about the
insular, even highly prejudiced nature of many BR races? That is, we
know elves and humans meet, mate and match because, of course, we
have half-elves, and there are such marriages and alliances described
in the published materials.
Humans and dwarves, though? Its an interesting thought for a domain and adventure level session for players and PCs because Id love to
see a players face as someone role-played out the marriage between his human PC and a dwarf NPC, but I dont know if I`d want to go so
far as to make it part of setting material…
Gary
Everyone knows that the character is a Dwarf is their surname includes a mineral, a weapon or alcohol 
Rjurick names can include similar kinds of elements. I think I may have assumed he was Rjurik.
Heh. Never mind then. We all make mistakes from time to time
I’m thinking more about human prejudice and cultural assumptions. The Anuireans likely see the khinasi or Vos (say) as physically distinct - both are visibly different, that could mean that they are seen not as simply different peoples, but as actually different races. Are elves or dwarves really so different visibly? While no Anuirean ‘of breeding’ would want to admit a kinship with goblins, elves are beautiful, cultured, etc - savage on occasion admittedly but don’t all people have their uncouth masses? Dwarves equally make fine goods, are wise and wealthy, so again a prejudiced noble would have the choice of either seeing another race as an equal (whisper the word better) or of believing that dwarves are just ‘short’ humans much as the Vos are tall.
People can be very selective in what they see and believe - often in complete disregard of evidence. Anuire’s social classes can be seen as extremely divided if one wishes, a self-absorbed noble could for example see peasants as a half way house between nobles and goblins, in such a scenario would marriage to a commoner be any more or less abhorrent than marriage to a dwarf or goblin? In fact would marriage to a dwarf not be preferable to marriage to a peasant? (Unless of course the peasant proves that they are a noble’s secret byblow by, say, winning wealth and power).
An argument between an elf who spits on the thought of any connection between the races besides noting mankind’s clear similarities to orogs and an Anuirean intent on proving the elf’s clear noble breeding is amusing to contemplate.
Any actual evolutionary link between the races depends heavily on the ability of evolution to function in the shadow world, where potentially the past was as mutable as the future. Looking purely at Cerilia recent common ancestors for all the bipedal mammalian sapients is certain barring divine intervention (Azrai’s habit of making species by corrupting humans for example), cross breeding then depends on the extremity of the divide, whether one species is simply a gracile form of another, etc.
The province’s regent is a dwarf,but the population is anuirean?I think that a dwarf province in Boeruine can be dangerous for the stalemale between Boeruine and Avanil.
There are references to dwarves throughout the Seamist mountains, and most of those mountains are on the border of Avanil and her vassals. If dwarves are an advantage, the benefit goes to Avanil, because she has more.