Powerful rulers

Dungeons & Dragons The Royal Library
1

de-lurker activation

Peter Lubke wrote:

> . . . MB is about the 8th strongest regent in Anuire (just below
Gavin Tael but above Mhoried) by my reckoning.

This raises an interesting discussion topic. What is the general
consensus of the most powerful rulers of Anuire? Maybe a “top 10”
list, so to speak. By extension, who would be the most powerful
rulers in Cerilia? These lists could include Awnsheghlien or not.

Sir Spud

re-instating lurker mode :slight_smile:

The Birthright Homepage: http://www.birthright.net
To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM
with UNSUB BIRTHRIGHT-L in the body of the message.

2

C & H Callen wrote:

>de-lurker activation
>
>Peter Lubke wrote:
>
> > . . . MB is about the 8th strongest regent in Anuire (just below
>Gavin Tael but above Mhoried) by my reckoning.
>
>This raises an interesting discussion topic. What is the general
>consensus of the most powerful rulers of Anuire? Maybe a “top 10”
>list, so to speak. By extension, who would be the most powerful
>rulers in Cerilia? These lists could include Awnsheghlien or not.
>
(Aw1) the Gorgon (who else ?) - this one is obvious in all ways
(Aw2) Rhuobhe - still rates higher than Avan, for several reasons, but
less obvious
(Aw3) the Spider - even less obvious but still higher than Avan
(1) Darien Avan (Prince of Avanil)
(2) Caliedhie Dosiere (Imperial Chamberlain) *see note 1 below
(3) Aeric Boeruine (Duke of Boeruine)
(4) Rhobher Nichaleir (Western Imperial Temple)
(5) Ghorien Hiriele (Highland Traders, Overland Traders)
(6) Fhylie (Militant Order of Cuiraecen)
(7) Gavin Tael (Baron of Ghoere)
(8) Mheallie Bireon (Stonecrown Coster, Northlands Exchange etc)
(8) Assan ibn Daouta (Elinie)
(10) Dhoesone
(10) Carilon Alam
(10) Mhoried
(13) Hierl Diem (Diemed)
…
(Aw4) the Seadrake - it`s hard to rank a creature of the sea against
those of the land

Note 1: IMC The Imperial College of Wizardry has HKs sources in Avanil, and CD leads the CoW. This extra boost in power is the dynamic that keeps DA from siezing the Iron Throne outright. Without it, Avan controls or has the support of Brosengae, Taeghas, Mieres, WIT, (and tacitly CJS), and PAI. Hes easily the wealthiest person in Anuire in
terms of gross income as well.

Cerilia:

Elves:
Most of the Elf realms have powerful leaders, and elves while not
numerous are powerful still. They do not make the top 10 however except
the Sayer of Coullabhie and Llaeddra of LLuabraight.

Rjurik:
None of the Rjurik feature really except the massive faith of Erik.

In Brechtur, the big boys are Erik Danig (Danigau) and Richard Tahlbehr
(Muden). These are powerful realms (especially Muden) even if the Havens
sourcebook is accepted as strongly biased. Power in Muden is shared
however, and neither is quite up to matching the Anuireans. Strangely,
no guild is very strong or rich at all. As a power in the world the
Swordhawk is worthy of a place in the Awnsgegh top 10.

Vos:
The Vos suffer from the same fate as the Rjurik, they are scattered and
do not unite well. There are several mid-level powers in the Vos but
none worthy of a top 10 place.

Khinasi:
The most powerful individual in the Khinasi lands is like Anuire, an
awnshegh - the Serpent. This beastie is bad bad bad - never
underestimate this slippery dude. Djafra could be really powerful if
united. Khourane and min Dhousai in the older Khinasi areas are strong
in ways the plains states can only imagine. Still no top 10 contenders
here either.

Dwarves:
Kheleb-Izhil is an unknown, has it prospered or withered ? (Has anyone
noticed than dwarven realms are always close to water, sometimes a lake
even ?) Apart from that uncertainty, dwarves are powerful in relation to
their size (a pun yes, but not just a pun) but there are no towering
giants (punny again). No dwarves make the top 10 either.

Goblins, Gnolls, Orog etc:
Kal-Kalathar is a stand out, but the ruler is weaker than most human
rulers. Still, he gets a place.

Awsheghlien top 5
(1) the Gorgon
(2) the Serpent
(3) Swordhawk
(4) Magian
(5) Rhuobhe

Cerilian Top 10 (sans Awnsheghlien)
(1) Darien Avan (Prince of Avanil)
(2) Caliedhie Dosiere (Imperial Chamberlain)
® Gunther Brandt (Oaken Grove of Erik/Aeric)
(3) Aeric Boeruine (Duke of Boeruine)
(4) Rhobher Nichaleir (Western Imperial Temple)
(5) Ghorien Hiriele (Highland Traders, Overland Traders)
(E) Llaeddra (Lluabraight)
(E) Sayer of Coullabhie
(G) Kal-Kalathor
(B) Erik Danig (Danigau)

The Birthright Homepage: http://www.birthright.net
To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM
with UNSUB BIRTHRIGHT-L in the body of the message.

3

Peter sez:
> Note 1: IMC The Imperial College of Wizardry has HK`s sources

in Avanil, and CD leads the CoW. This extra boost in power is
the dynamic that keeps DA from siezing the Iron Throne
outright. Without it, Avan controls or has the support of
Brosengae, Taeghas, Mieres, WIT, (and tacitly CJS), and PAI.
He`s easily the wealthiest person in Anuire in terms of gross
> income as well.

I don`t recall anyhting in the sources suggesting that the Chamberlain
leads the CoS/W.
In fact, I rather suspect that he keeps the extent of his powers secret.
Is it written somewhere and have I missed it?

–
John Machin
(trithemius@paradise.net.nz)

“Nothing is more beautiful than to know the All.”
Athanasius Kircher, Ars Magna Sciendi.

The Birthright Homepage: http://www.birthright.net
To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM
with UNSUB BIRTHRIGHT-L in the body of the message.

4

John Machin wrote:

>Peter sez:
>
>>Note 1: IMC The Imperial College of Wizardry has HK`s sources

in Avanil, and CD leads the CoW. This extra boost in power is
the dynamic that keeps DA from siezing the Iron Throne
outright. Without it, Avan controls or has the support of
Brosengae, Taeghas, Mieres, WIT, (and tacitly CJS), and PAI.
Hes easily the wealthiest person in Anuire in terms of gross >>income as well. >> > >I dont recall anyhting in the sources suggesting that the Chamberlain
leads the CoS/W.
In fact, I rather suspect that he keeps the extent of his powers secret.
Is it written somewhere and have I missed it?

^^^ IMC (In My Campaign) – nothing you`ve missed

The Birthright Homepage: http://www.birthright.net
To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM
with UNSUB BIRTHRIGHT-L in the body of the message.

5

> ^^^ IMC (In My Campaign) – nothing you`ve missed

Ah. Okay :slight_smile:

Why did you go with that, might I ask. Surely keeping track of fractious
Anuirean nobles is bad enough without also having to keep track of
fractious Anuirean magi as well?

–
John Machin
(trithemius@paradise.net.nz)

“Nothing is more beautiful than to know the All.”
Athanasius Kircher, Ars Magna Sciendi.

The Birthright Homepage: http://www.birthright.net
To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM
with UNSUB BIRTHRIGHT-L in the body of the message.

6

John Machin wrote:

>>^^^ IMC (In My Campaign) – nothing you`ve missed

Ah. Okay :slight_smile:

Why did you go with that, might I ask. Surely keeping track of fractious
Anuirean nobles is bad enough without also having to keep track of
fractious Anuirean magi as well?

Ah .. it was a “power in the west” thing. (as well as a curb on Avan)

Khorien is really too powerful to be a Vassal of Avan under standard
rules (47 RP and heaps of GB not to mention loads of source). Its difficult to see how Avan could have brought the situation about, in fact, Avan as described by RoE couldnt really NOT be Emperor under
standard rules – he has so much RP GB Vassals etc that Boeruine and
Ghoere together are just gnats in comparison. On the other hand Rhuobhe
has very few sources considering that hes been around as long as he has, has it in for the humans as much as he has etc. So really, Im just
trying to power down Avan to the point where he is the premier (highest)
regent in Anuire, but can`t force his way immediately to the Iron throne.

My modified rules for RP collection and gold collection change the
situation to the point that you can understand Khoriens dilemma (he has almost no income and a vast network of sources to maintain as well as an entire realm), but do not stop Avanil from taking the Iron throne - although he is now matched against a greatly improved Dosiere, Dosiere cant match Avan militarilly. Powering up the CoS (by adding the sources
in Avanil that HK can`t maintain - which alleviates some of HKs pain),
and allying them to CD is a foil to DAs superior military might. (Not
that he might not be able to force the Iron throne still, but it would
definately cost him dearly - perhaps too dearly)

By powering up Rhuobhe (adding several sources to his domain from
Taeghas and Boeruine), it really introduces a significant power shift on
the Western Coast. Avans influence on the law of Taeghas and Brosengae is very significant still - effectively limiting Taeghan tax collection to a bare handful of GB. Brosengae has significant guild and trade to balance this, while Taeghas must hold power by virtue of his source holdings alone. Boeruine cant infiltrate Taeghas easilly because of
Avans law holdings - hes up against superior RP and GB (i.e. hes up against DA and not HK) so the HK "power down" doesnt really hurt as
much as it would appear.

The great dificulty with Magi is that they are usually pretty poor. They
also are more “hands on” in the running and building of their domain.
With Magi, its a personal thing - and a secretive thing. In terms of source magic, its primarilly defensive in nature - although less so
than temple magic - it`s easier to defend with it than to attack.

HK`s realm is pretty undeveloped, he has no law to speak of, and
powerful neighbors around. Taeghas has good potential and would be far
better off under a non-wizard regent with a court wizard - if fact my
first thoughts were to have HK abdicate the realm in favor of a cousin
(releasing Taeghas from DAs grasp), and become court wizard to the
cousin - creating a boost in RP overall.

So as to Magi, their interaction is on a more personal level than that
of regents with realms, (or even faith or guild regents for that
matter). Their affiliation with realm regents is more a matter of
convenience (GB) than power. In Anuire there are few powerful sources
and these tend to be scattered (with the exception of the area around
Rhuobhe), so a mage will tend to build a network of ley lines based on
just one or two powerful sources. [Elves IMC cant create ley lines - but then they dont need to, their sources are usually high in power in
any case]

The Birthright Homepage: http://www.birthright.net
To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM
with UNSUB BIRTHRIGHT-L in the body of the message.

7

My view on the most powerful regents.

Top 10 in Anuire, excluding Awnsheghliens

  1. Avanil
  2. Boeruine
  3. Ghoere
  4. Western Imperial Temple
  5. Mhaellie Bireon
  6. Militant Order of Cuiraécen
  7. Talinie
  8. Sword Mage
  9. Endier
  10. Tuarhievel

Top 5 Awnsheghs on Cerilia

  1. Gorgon
  2. Raven
  3. Magian
  4. Serpent
  5. Rhuobhe

Top 10 Realms on Cerilia:

  1. Avanil
  2. Gorgon
  3. Boeruine
  4. Raven
  5. Magian
  6. Ghoere
  7. Muden
  8. Min Dhousai
  9. Danigau
  10. Kal Kalathor

Btw, the reason I rate Avanil higher than the Gorgon is essentially because of the power derived from Avanil’s diplomacy. The Gorgon isn’t exactly in a position to make a lot of diplomacy.

8

On Fri, 2002-05-17 at 13:47, brnetboard@TUARHIEVEL.ORG wrote:
> Temujin wrote:
> My view on the most powerful regents.
>
> Top 10 in Anuire, excluding Awnsheghliens
>
> 1) Avanil
> 2) Boeruine
> 3) Ghoere
> 4) Western Imperial Temple
> 5) Mhaellie Bireon
> 6) Militant Order of Cuiraécen
> 7) Talinie
> 8) Sword Mage
> 9) Endier
> 10) Tuarhievel

why no Ghorien Hiriele (Highland/Overland Traders) ?

>
> Top 5 Awnsheghs on Cerilia
>
> 1) Gorgon
> 2) Raven
> 3) Magian
> 4) Serpent
> 5) Rhuobhe
>
> Top 10 Realms on Cerilia:
>
> 1) Avanil
> 2) Gorgon
> 3) Boeruine
> 4) Raven
> 5) Magian
> 6) Ghoere
> 7) Muden
> 8) Min Dhousai
> 9) Danigau10) Kal Kalathor

>
> ****************************************************************************
> The Birthright Homepage: http://www.birthright.net
> To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM
> with UNSUB BIRTHRIGHT-L in the body of the message.

The Birthright Homepage: http://www.birthright.net
To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM
with UNSUB BIRTHRIGHT-L in the body of the message.

9

Orginally posted by Peter Lubke
why no Ghorien Hiriele (Highland/Overland Traders) ?

He’s a puppet. A powerful puppet you might say, but most of his power is derived from him serving Ghoere. I consider both Mhaellie Bireon and Guilder Kalien to be more dangerous guilders, in part because of their independence from landed rulers, and in part because they are both very clever regents capable of out-maneuvering others through their dirty plots :slight_smile: As far as Anuire goes, few other guild regents are in their league. Ghorien Hiriele is not one of them.

10

The College is actually run by a ten member council whose chairperson is a 19the leven Enchantress that supposedly is immortal (Book of Magecraft)

Top 10 Awnies

  1. Gorgon, hands down
  2. Magian
  3. Raven
  4. Serpent
  5. White Witch
  6. Swordhawk
  7. Chimaera
  8. Sphinx
  9. Rhuobhe
  10. Spider

Top 10 non Awnies

  1. Lluabright
  2. Kal Kalathor
  3. Avanil
  4. Boeruine
  5. Ghoere
  6. Danigau
  7. Muden
  8. Aftane
  9. Zoloskaya
  10. Either one of the two main Erik faiths

On top of all: Gorgon, noone above him

First of all, I shall explain why Avanil is not as powerful as people say. If you read at Mieres and Brosengae you will read that they will leave the Prince at any time. They are not trusted allies or vassals, so don’t count on them. The trusted ally is Taeghas, just like Talinie is for Boeruine. Apart from that the Boeruines have a past of making deals with Thurazor (read the Iron Throne)

Now, why is Taeghas a vassal? Because the regent is a rather bored mage. He wants to be left alone to research and he does not care about his people. Well, Avan does.

Now the Gorgon. Count vassals/allies
Markazor
Mur Kilad
Kiergard
the Fingers of Azrai
that awnie guilder he has

All those plus the VAST Gorgon’s Crown and the rather weak Giantdowns neighbour and the Brecht neighbours, plus the isolated, too-racist-to-ask-help Sielwode, make excellent expansion ground. Add in the sheer power of the Gorgon himself as a mage and there you have it.