Bloodhunter/blutjäger

[the_Falcon]

I’m trying to devise a prestige class for the Swordhawk’s Blutjäger, but as I’ve never done anything like creating a prestige class before, I could use some help. So here I am asking for some.

BLOODHUNTER
<insert blurb here>
Hit Die: d8

Requirements
To qualify to become a bloodhunter, a character must fulfill all of the following criteria.
Alignment: Any lawful (a bloodhunters must always follow the orders of the employer without question and must vow never to commit bloodtheft themselves).
Skills: Gather Information X ranks, Intimidate X ranks, Survival X ranks (a bloodhunter must be able to efficiently uncover information about the whereabouts of blooded targets).
Feats: Exotic Weapon Proficiency (bolas, net), Track (a bloodhunter must be able to track down blooded targets and capture them alive).

Class Skills
The bloodhunter’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Craft (poisonmaking) (Int), Disguise (Cha), Gather Information (Cha), Hide (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (nobility & royalty) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Sense Motive (Wis), Spot (Wis), Survival (Wis).
Skill Points at Each Level: 6 + Int modifier

Class Features
All of the following are class features of the bloodhunter prestige class.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: A bloodhunter’s weapon training focuses on weapons suitable for disabling opponents, rather than killing them. Bloodhunters are proficient with the blowgun, dart, flail (light and heavy), guisarme, halberd, ranseur, and sap. Bloodhunters are proficient with light armor.
<insert other interesting class features here>

Base Attack Bonus: as ranger.
Good Saves: Fortitude.

Suggestions for the missing pieces?

–the Falcon

[geeman]

the Falcon writes:

> I’m trying to devise a prestige class for the Swordhawk’s

> Blutjäger, but as I’ve never done anything like creating a

> prestige class before, I could use some help. So here I am

> asking for some.

Did you have any speciali abilities in mind? Favored Opponent: Scion or

something like that might be good. An ability to track scions might make

some sense.

Gary

[teloft]

Requirements

Track:
for city dwellers the Track feat would not be nessisery,
but it is wery usefull for this class.

Exotic Weapon Proficiency (bolas, net):
and you would not need every weapon thet you can capture somone alife with. For exaple I migth use a sap, or a trap to capter my blooded targets.
I would say thet you need to be Proficient with a way to take a target alife, then let the player argue how he is going to do thet commonly.

Survival X:
Well, if your not tracking, you dont need survival for this class, never the less it can be usefull. but not realy a Requirement.

Do you have any idee for the apple thet would atrackt people to this class?

use of nondeadly potions of something, witout the risk of geting infected yourselfe. f.x. to aply on a dart, or to put in somonse food.

we need some endge thet is not coverd in the other classes to make this one an apple.

:ph34r:

Edit:

Heres one bit:

Sens blood (Sp) at 3rd lv. as detect evil/magic, the spell, 3/day
and at 10 lv at will.

[irdeggman]

Maybe an enhanced sense of smell that enables smelling the blood of the gods.

The prerequisites need to be sufficient to force a character to be at least 5th level before qualifying. This would be at least 9 ranks in a skill (if my math is right) or a +5 BAB, etc.

It might be a good prerequisite to have a favored enemy - scion. This would give a lot of ranger benefits that normally are associated with a favored enemy.

[teloft]

lv 3 : Detect blood - 3/day (Sp)
lv 9 : Detect blood - at will (Sp)

Detect blood(Sp) as the spell, detect evil, or detect magic.

:ph34r:

I have written up some spells to increas the flow of idees
i have marked some of them with a ‘*’

Werry usefull:
Expeditious Retreat
Hypnotism *
Hold Person
Suggestion *
Helping Hand
Change Self
Charm Person
Sleep
Detect Thoughts *

to a lesser extent usefull
Hold Portal
Comprehend Languages
Web
Hideous Laughter
Knock
Confusion
Emotion *

and perhaps a bit to powerfull:
True Seeing
Feeblemind
Hold Monster
Dominate Person
Mind Fog
False Vision
Seeming
Eyebite *
Clairaudience/Clairvoyance
Arcane Eye
Prying Eyes

[the_Falcon]

Gary wrote:

“Did you have any speciali abilities in mind? Favored opponent: Scion or something like that might be good. An ability to track scions might make some sense.”

Yeah, I was thinking along the lines of something like Favored Enemy (scion) or something like that. Also, I thought about giving the bloodhunter the ability to sense the presence of a bloodline, like the paladin’s detect evil or the elf’s ability to automatically notice secret doors. Haven’t though out the details yet. What do you think?

[the_Falcon]

Teloft wrote:

“Requirements
Track: for city dwellers the Track feat would not be nessisery, but it is wery usefull for this class.”

Well, I want to require this, because it kinda emfasizes the hunter element of the class.

“Exotic Weapon Proficiency (bolas, net): and you would not need every weapon thet you can capture somone alife with.”

True. I really only added the bolas as an afterthought. What about if I require Improved Disarm instead of Exotic Weapon Proficiency?

“For exaple I migth use a sap, or a trap to capter my blooded targets. I would say thet you need to be Proficient with a way to take a target alife, then let the player argue how he is going to do thet commonly.”

Well, I would like to set up a set of nonambiguous baseline of requirements for the class. I can always work with individual players from there.

“Survival X: Well, if your not tracking, you dont need survival for this class, never the less it can be usefull. but not realy a Requirement.”

True again. I added this after I had added Track as requirement, but yes, strictly put, it doesn’t have to be a requirement, because indeed, it doesn’t necessarily fit the class per se. I think I’ll drop it.

“Do you have any idee for the apple thet would atrackt people to this class?”

Apple? Sorry–what do you mean?

“use of nondeadly potions of something, witout the risk of geting infected yourselfe. f.x. to aply on a dart, or to put in somonse food.”

Yeah, I’ve been toying with the idea of nonlethal poisons for this class, too. That’s why included Craft (poisonmaking) in it. I suppose I could extrapolate a bit more on that.

“we need some endge thet is not coverd in the other classes to make this one an apple.”

I’d say that’s the goal of any prestige class, indeed, though I’m still not sure what that apple is you’re talking about.

“Sens blood (Sp) at 3rd lv. as detect evil/magic, the spell, 3/day
and at 10 lv at will.”

Thanks for the suggestion.

[the_Falcon]

irdeggman wrote:

[b]" Maybe an enhanced sense of smell that enables smelling the blood of the gods. The prerequisites need to be sufficient to force a character to be at least 5th level before qualifying. This would be at least 9 ranks in a skill (if my math is right) or a +5 BAB, etc. It might be a good prerequisite to have a favored enemy - scion. This would give a lot of ranger benefits that normally are associated with a favored enemy."

[/b]
I don’t necessarily want to make Favored Enemy a prerequisite; this prestige class is not meant for rangers alone per se. Though then again, a little multiclassing never hurt anyone, I suppose.
I think I’ll just require Favored Enemy (any humanoid) instead. From there, I’ll ad Favored Enemy (scion) as a feature to the class. Something along those lines.
As for the skills, max ranks - 3 = character level, so 8 ranks would be the right requirement to make sure a character has achieved at least 5th level upon entry. I suppose I could just go with that per default, until I encounter a reason not to.

[teloft]

I would like to sifrent paths to this class.

the path of the rouge
the path of the bard
the path of the sorcerer
the path of the ranger

I would personaly design this class to be a natural exstension of all thees without crossclasing.

I wote for using the ‘skill fogus’ feat on something as a Prerequirement
(perhaps ‘Gather Information’ )

and the ‘Use Rope’ is a must to bind the capterd ones.
thet is a class skill only for Rouges and Rangers

But the ‘Bluff’ skill is class for
SORCERER, ROGUE, BARD But the Ranger only gets Bluff bonuses from Favored Enemy

[b]
Favored Enemy (Ex): At 1st level, a ranger may select a type of creature from among those given on Table: Ranger Favored Enemies. The ranger gains a +2 bonus on Bluff, Listen, Sense Motive, Spot, and Survival checks when using these skills against creatures of this type. Likewise, he gets a +2 bonus on weapon damage rolls against such creatures.

At 5th level and every five levels thereafter (10th, 15th, and 20th level), the ranger may select an additional favored enemy from those given on the table. In addition, at each such interval, the bonus against any one favored enemy (including the one just selected, if so desired) increases by 2.
If the ranger chooses humanoids or outsiders as a favored enemy, he must also choose an associated subtype, as indicated on the table. If a specific creature falls into more than one category of favored enemy, the ranger’s bonuses do not stack; he simply uses whichever bonus is higher.
[/b]

if we dont want people to take this clas until at least afther 5 normal levels, we could set the Prerequirement of 8 ranks, counting the Rangers Favored Enemies bonus to Bluff.

:ph34r:

Ill follow with some quotes to PHB 3.5

Class name
HD Type
Special efect of class per level

[b]
Ranger
HD d8

1st favored enemy, Track, wild empathy
Combat style
Endurance
Animal companion
2nd favored enemy
Spells, Improved combat style
[/b]

[b]
ROGUE
HD d6

Sneak attack +1d6, trapfinding
Evasion
Sneak attack +2d6, trap sense +1
Uncanny dodge
Sneak attack +3d6
Trap sense +2
[/b]

[b]
BARD
HD d6

Spells, Bardic music, bardic knowledge, countersong, fascinate, inspire courage +1
Spells
Spells, Inspire competence
Spells
Spells
Spells, Suggestion
[/b]

[b]
SORCERER
HD d4

Spells, Summon familiar
Spells
Spells
Spells
Spells
Spells
[/b]

[the_Falcon]

Teloft wrote:

[b]"I have written up some spells to increas the flow of idees
i have marked some of them with a ‘*’ "

[/b]
Thanks, that’s useful.
Thänk ju weri matsh.

[teloft]

Apple? Sorry–what do you mean?

Apple : something that makse the edge, something good, something rewarding, something thet makse the class appealing.

[the_Falcon]

A little rewrite (far from complete yet):

BLOODHUNTER
<insert blurb here>
Hit Die: d8

Requirements
To qualify to become a bloodhunter, a character must fulfill all of the following criteria.
Alignment: Any lawful.
Skills: Gather Information 7 ranks, Intimidate 7 ranks, Use Rope 8 ranks, Survival 5 ranks.
Feats: Combat Expertise, Improved Disarm, Martial Weapon Proficiency (sap), Track.
Special: Favored Enemy (any humanoid).

Class Skills
The bloodhunter’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Craft (poisonmaking) (Int), Disguise (Cha), Gather Information (Cha), Hide (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (nobility & royalty) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Sense Motive (Wis), Spot (Wis), Survival (Wis), Use Rope (Dex).
Skill Points at Each Level: 6 + Int modifier

Class Features
All of the following are class features of the bloodhunter prestige class.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: A bloodhunter’s weapon training focuses on weapons suitable for disabling opponents, rather than killing them. Bloodhunters are proficient with the blowgun, dart, flail (light and heavy), guisarme, halberd, ranseur, and sap. Bloodhunters are proficient with light armor.
Bonus Feat: Exotic Weapon Proficiency (net).
Detect Bloodline: At will, as detect magic.
Bloodsense: An bloodhunter who merely passes within 5 feet of a blooded creature is entitled to a special check (based on class level and Wis modifier) to notice that the creature is blooded (DC goes up for weaker bloodlines).
Bloodscent: The bloodhunter is treated as having the Scent quality with respect to blooded creatures only.
Favored Enemy (scion): As the ranger class feature.
Nonlethal Poison Use: Bloodhunters are trained in the use of nonlethal poison and never risk accidentally poisoning themselves when applying nonlethal poison to a blade. A nonlethal poison is any poison that cannot kill a character, does not deal hp damage or Con damage, and does not inflict any ability drain.

Base Attack Bonus: as ranger.
Good Saves: Fortitude.

Notes: Gather Information and Intimidate are cross-class skills for rangers, but class skills for rogues. Since this prestige class requires 3 feats, a nonhuman could only take it after 6th-level, instead of 5th, as a human could.

Questions: at which class level should each class feature become available? Did I miss anything? Any suggestions on the exact game mechanics? Is d8 and 6 skill points alright or do the class features warrant some other combination?

[the_Falcon]

I could of course also add a small spell list with disabling and detection spells, for instance. Good or bad idea?

[Osprey]

Prerequisites:

Skills: Gather Information 7 ranks, Intimidate 7 ranks, Use Rope 8 ranks, Survival 5 ranks.

Why Intimidate as a requirement? Sure it could be useful, but must every Bloodhunter be capable of intimidating people? Too many prerequisites can make a class too generic…something to keep in mind.

Use Rope (8 ranks) and Gather Information (8 ranks instead of 7 if the others are dropped, I’d say) are good requirements; I would drop the Survival and Intimidate skills, since Tracking can be done with Search as well as Survival.

Feats: Combat Expertise, Improved Disarm, Martial Weapon Proficiency (sap), Track.

How about Expertise, Improved Trip or Improved Disarm, Track, and Proficiency in one non-lethal weapon: sap, net, bolas, or chain?

I would drop Favored Enemy as a requirement, because it forces every Bloodhunter to be a ranger, which is very constrictive. Track, at least, can be taken as a feat without being a ranger. And I think Rogues would make excellent bloodhnters without being rangers, especially in urban areas.

Class Skills
The bloodhunter’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Craft (poisonmaking) (Int), Disguise (Cha), Gather Information (Cha), Hide (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (nobility & royalty) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Sense Motive (Wis), Spot (Wis), Survival (Wis), Use Rope (Dex).

Why not add Bluff and Diplomacy as class skills, along with Knowledge: Local and Kn: Geography? Bluff and Diplomacy can be quite useful for the non-lethal fighter/bounty-hunter. Bluff as a means of feinting in combat, Diplomacy as a way to reason with the target and with one’s employer for a better contract! With 6+ skill points, these guys can afford to have a big list of class skills.

CLASS FEATURES

I think the ideas are good. Consider giving Blood Sense at 1st or 2nd level, since it is such a basic component of what the Bloodhunter is all about.

Allow the Bonus Exotic Weapon Prof. feat to be one from a choice of non-lethal weapons (see above), and you can then grant it 2-3 different times during the class progression.

I think the favored enemy (scions) is a great addition; I’d grant it several times (maybe 1st, 5th, and 9th levels? or 2/6/10 works, too).

Another possible class feature might be Sneak Attack with non-lethal (subdual) attacks only, perhaps +1d6 every 3 levels or so.

Bonus Feat: Weapon Focus with a non-lethal weapon that the Bloodhunter is proficient with might be another possible class feature.

[Osprey]

Notes: Gather Information and Intimidate are cross-class skills for rangers, but class skills for rogues. Since this prestige class requires 3 feats, a nonhuman could only take it after 6th-level, instead of 5th, as a human could.

Non-humans who were multiclass fighters could gain those feats as bonus feats (Expertise and Imp. Disarm, anyways).

I would give them good saves in Ref and Fort, as rangers in 3.5.

Since they have the same hit die and base attack as rangers, use rangers as a comparison for balance. Do the class features balance out with someone who would otherwise be a straight ranger? Compare to what a character gives up in taking the prestige class compared to what they gain. This should help in developing balance in the class.

[the_Falcon]

Osprey wrote:

[b]“Why Intimidate as a requirement? Sure it could be useful, but must every Bloodhunter be capable of intimidating people? Too many prerequisites can make a class too generic…something to keep in mind.”

[/b]
Bloodhunters need Intimidate to effectively interrogate commoners for the whereabouts of any scions.

[b]“Use Rope (8 ranks) and Gather Information (8 ranks instead of 7 if the others are dropped, I’d say) are good requirements; I would drop the Survival and Intimidate skills, since Tracking can be done with Search as well as Survival.”

[/b]
Hate to sound like a rules lawyer, but I’m afraid I have to disagree: tracking cannot be done with Search. Let me quote the latest version of the d20 SRD for you: “[…] you can use the Search skill to find a footprint or similar sign of a creature’s passage using the DCs given above, but you can’t use Search to follow tracks, even if someone else has already found them.”

[b]“How about Expertise, Improved Trip or Improved Disarm, Track, and Proficiency in one non-lethal weapon: sap, net, bolas, or chain?”

[/b]
Well, that isn’t such a bad idea at all. Good suggestion. I’ll leave out the chain though, since that is not quite nonlethal.

[b]“I would drop Favored Enemy as a requirement, because it forces every Bloodhunter to be a ranger, which is very constrictive. Track, at least, can be taken as a feat without being a ranger. And I think Rogues would make excellent bloodhnters without being rangers, especially in urban areas.”

[/b]
You make the Favored Enemy requirement sound rather harsh, but it really only requires one level of ranger. That’s all. Is that really so bad/restrictive?

[b]“Why not add Bluff and Diplomacy as class skills, along with Knowledge: Local and Kn: Geography? Bluff and Diplomacy can be quite useful for the non-lethal fighter/bounty-hunter. Bluff as a means of feinting in combat, Diplomacy as a way to reason with the target and with one’s employer for a better contract! With 6+ skill points, these guys can afford to have a big list of class skills.”

[/b]
Well, I did add Bluff and Diplomacy, actually as part of my very first brainstorm, but then I removed them, 'cause I didn’t want them to be too heavy on the Cha-based skills. That’s just not how I envisioned them. Bloodhunters are not supposed to be suave, smooth-talking rogues. They’re supposed to be a bit scary, actually. Ruthless trackers, relentless in the pursuit of their prey. Once they’ve got a hold of you, you’ll wish they’d have used lethal weapons… ];}

[b]“I think the ideas are good. Consider giving Blood Sense at 1st or 2nd level, since it is such a basic component of what the Bloodhunter is all about.”

[/b]
Yeah, I think that would work quite well.

[b]“Allow the Bonus Exotic Weapon Prof. feat to be one from a choice of non-lethal weapons (see above), and you can then grant it 2-3 different times during the class progression.”

[/b]
Hey, I like your ideas.

[b]"I think the favored enemy (scions) is a great addition; I’d grant it several times (maybe 1st, 5th, and 9th levels? or 2/6/10 works, too). "

[/b]
Yeah, I did intend for the bonus to increase.

[b]“Another possible class feature might be Sneak Attack with non-lethal (subdual) attacks only, perhaps +1d6 every 3 levels or so.”

[/b]
Hey, great idea. I was already still looking for ways to increase their nonlethal damage potential. This is a good one. Thanks.

[b]“Bonus Feat: Weapon Focus with a non-lethal weapon that the Bloodhunter is proficient with might be another possible class feature.”

[/b]
I suppose the best way to go is just make a list of feats that they can choose from each time they receive a bonus feat. Sorta like the fighter, but more limited.

[teloft]

You make the Favored Enemy requirement sound rather harsh, but it really only requires one level of ranger. That’s all. Is that really so bad/restrictive?

YES

it realy is, you take out the good hig lv abilitys of all other clases, or at least you are telling people to be rangers. and its not good to restrict people so.

:ph34r:

[teloft]

I would only have 2 or 3 skills as a Pre…

Gather Information, SENSE MOTIVE and perhaps BLUFF

:ph34r:

[the_Falcon]

Teloft wrote:

“it realy is, you take out the good hig lv abilitys of all other clases, or at least you are telling people to be rangers. and its not good to restrict people so.”

Examples of DMG v3.5 Prestige Class restrictions:
[ul][li]Arcane Trickster: Ability to cast mage hand and at least one arcane spell of 3rd level or higher. Sneak attack +2d6.[/li][li]Thaumaturgist: Able to cast lesser planar ally.[/li][/ul]Aren’t these equally restrictive?

[the_Falcon]

Some adjustments:

BLOODHUNTER
<insert blurb here>
Hit Die: d8

Requirements
To qualify to become a bloodhunter, a character must fulfill all of the following criteria.
Alignment: Any lawful.
Skills: Gather Information 8 ranks, Intimidate 5 ranks, Sense Motive 5 ranks, Survival 7 ranks.
Feats: Combat Expertise, Exotic Weapon Proficiency (net), Improved Disarm OR Improved Trip, Track.

Class Skills
The bloodhunter’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Craft (poisonmaking) (Int), Disguise (Cha), Gather Information (Cha), Hide (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (nobility & royalty) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Sense Motive (Wis), Spot (Wis), Survival (Wis), Use Rope (Dex).
Skill Points at Each Level: 6 + Int modifier

Class Features
All of the following are class features of the bloodhunter prestige class.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: A bloodhunter’s weapon training focuses on weapons suitable for disabling opponents, rather than killing them. Bloodhunters are proficient with the blowgun, dart, flail (light and heavy), guisarme, halberd, ranseur, and sap. Bloodhunters are proficient with light armor.
Bonus Feat: Choose from the following: Exotic Weapon Proficiency (bolas), Improved Disarm, Improved Trip, Weapon Focus (bolas, net, or sap).
Detect Bloodline: At will, as detect magic.
Bloodsense: An bloodhunter who merely passes within 5 feet of a blooded creature is entitled to a special check (based on class level and Wis modifier) to notice that the creature is blooded (DC goes up for weaker bloodlines).
Bloodscent: The bloodhunter is treated as having the Scent quality with respect to blooded creatures only.
Favored Enemy (scion): As the ranger class feature.
Nonlethal Poison Use: Bloodhunters are trained in the use of nonlethal poison and never risk accidentally poisoning themselves when applying nonlethal poison to a blade. A nonlethal poison is any poison that cannot kill a character, does not deal hp damage or Con damage, and does not inflict any ability drain.
Nonlethal Sneak Attack: The bloodhunter has the ability to make a sneak attack that deals nonlethal damage without incurring the usual -4 penalty. Sneak attack damage from other sources stacks with this ability. The bloodhunter can never use this ability to inflict lethal damage.

[ul][li]1st level: Bloodsense, Nonlethal Sneak Attack +1d6[/li][li]2nd level: Favored Enemy (scion) +2[/li][li]3rd level: Bonus Feat, Nonlethal Sneak Attack +2d6[/li][li]4th level: Detect Bloodline[/li][li]5th level: Nonlethal Poison Use, Nonlethal Sneak Attack +2d6[/li][li]6th level: Favored Enemy (scion) +4, Bonus Feat[/li][li]7th level: Bloodscent[/ul][/li]
Base Attack Bonus: as ranger.
Good Saves: Fortitude, Reflex.

I think these requirement would make the lowest possible entry character a 5th-level ranger/rogue, which is kind of what I want, but I’m not sure. At least, I don’t think there’s any class that has both Gather Information and Survival. What do you people think, especially about the requirements? I dropped the whole idea of “they have to be scary”. In locales other than Massenmarch, I can also see a concerned noble hiring a Bloodhunter to retrieve her/his kidnapped/lost/all too adventurous daughter/son/relative/someone.