Originally posted by irdeggman+Nov 4 2003, 03:01 AM–></span><table border=‘0’ align=‘center’ width=‘95%’ cellpadding=‘3’ cellspacing=‘1’><tr><td>QUOTE (irdeggman @ Nov 4 2003, 03:01 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id=‘QUOTE’> <!–QuoteBegin–the Falcon@Nov 1 2003, 05:15 PM Teloft wrote:[quote]“lawfull, devoted hunter of blood, unwilling to corupt his own soul with the poison of blood power. he is trained in taking down dynastys of blood. without corupting his own pure soul.”
Cool, I like that description. I think it adds yet a bit more depth to the bloodhunter. [/quote]
But it seems to be in total contradiction to the original design of the prestige class. That is when you made it a servant of the swordhawk used in order to increase his bloodline strength. How can they take down dynasties and have their main purpose to build one? [/b][/quote]
wit the ideology, thet when to much blood gather in one beging, thet begin will blow itselfs out of this world. (in efect becoming a god) and as a god, it has a lesser degry of controle over the population then it dos in NPC form
so taking down dynastys in order to create a god. becous it hatse the dynastys. But dosent care about gods.
Originally posted by irdeggman How can they take down dynasties and have their main purpose to build one?
Irdeggman, I’m not sure I understand your question. Bloodhunters don’t take down dynasties. I’ve never said that. As for the bloodhunters working for the Swordhawk, their purpose is not to build a dynasty. I don’t think the Swordhawk is interested in that at all. He just wants to be powerful himself. What happens after that, I don’t think he really cares about. Even then, the only reason that the Swordhawk’s bloodhunters’ purpose is to enhance his power and his alone is only because they work for him. It is not the sole purpose of the bloodhunter per se. The way I see it, bloodhunters don’t really care per se why they have to do anything. They just do it because they’re told to. No questions asked. Hence, the lawful alignment requirement. Does that answer your question?
Originally posted by teloft@Nov 4 2003, 12:47 PM wit the ideology, thet when to much blood gather in one beging, thet begin will blow itselfs out of this world. (in efect becoming a god) and as a god, it has a lesser degry of controle over the population then it dos in NPC form
so taking down dynastys in order to create a god. becous it hatse the dynastys. But dosent care about gods.
:huh:?
I’m sorry, Teloft, but I can’t follow what you’re saying at all.
Originally posted by the Falcon+Nov 4 2003, 06:25 AM–></span><table border=‘0’ align=‘center’ width=‘95%’ cellpadding=‘3’ cellspacing=‘1’><tr><td>QUOTE (the Falcon @ Nov 4 2003, 06:25 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id=‘QUOTE’> <!–QuoteBegin–irdeggman How can they take down dynasties and have their main purpose to build one?
Irdeggman, I’m not sure I understand your question. Bloodhunters don’t take down dynasties. I’ve never said that. As for the bloodhunters working for the Swordhawk, their purpose is not to build a dynasty. I don’t think the Swordhawk is interested in that at all. He just wants to be powerful himself. What happens after that, I don’t think he really cares about. Even then, the only reason that the Swordhawk’s bloodhunters’ purpose is to enhance his power and his alone is only because they work for him. It is not the sole purpose of the bloodhunter per se. The way I see it, bloodhunters don’t really care per se why they have to do anything. They just do it because they’re told to. No questions asked. Hence, the lawful alignment requirement. Does that answer your question? [/b][/quote]
No, but you acknowledged the statement and said it added a bit more depth to the prestige class. That at least seemed to me to be be acknowleding the essence of the post.
Maybe we are looking at what a dynasty is differently. To me a dynasty is a form of rulership based on power, usually from a single individual. That is why I don’t see a difference between what the swordhawk is trying to accomplish and in trying to establish a dynasty. It’s all about power. More personal power translates to more power over a realm, that is what being blooded is all about after all.
Originally posted by irdeggman@Nov 4 2003, 12:30 PM
Maybe we are looking at what a dynasty is differently. To me a dynasty is a form of rulership based on power, usually from a single individual. That is why I don’t see a difference between what the swordhawk is trying to accomplish and in trying to establish a dynasty. It’s all about power. More personal power translates to more power over a realm, that is what being blooded is all about after all.
I must disagree. Dynasties do not just embody personal power, but also a political system where rulership is easily transferred from parent to child. This requires not only personal power, but also the loyalty of the populace, development of a strong heir, loyalty of the army to the government and not merely the present ruler, an administration that can ease the transfer of power. Not all of these aspects are required, but it surely takes more than just personal power. The Swordhawk is really a dictator, and the system of rule that he created will most likely crumble upon his death.
Agreed - the Swordhawk’s rule would become dynastic only if he established a ruling family descended from himself, carrying his bloodline. Dynasties are the norm in Birthright, of course, but they aren’ the only way to go - it’s also well-known for regents to designate heirs who aren’t their children or even blood relatives. And long-lived regents, particularly those with the Great ability of Long Life, might very well avoid having heirs in order to protect themselves from impatient and ambitious children who are sick of waiting for mom or dad to die and leave them the throne…
Does the Bloodhawk have Long Life to any degree? It might make a considerable difference in his attitude in this regard.
Originally posted by irdeggman@Nov 4 2003, 07:30 PM No, but you acknowledged the statement and said it added a bit more depth to the prestige class. That at least seemed to me to be be acknowleding the essence of the post.
Well, I just thought it sounded cool.
I didn’t incorporate it into the blurb, though.
[i]Originally posted by geeman+Nov 4 2003, 06:32 PM–></span><table border=‘0’ align=‘center’ width=‘95%’ cellpadding=‘3’ cellspacing=‘1’><tr><td>QUOTE (geeman @ Nov 4 2003, 06:32 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id=‘QUOTE’>A while back I wrote up a Detect Bloodline skill. This might be a good place for something like that, especially if one had a class ability for the bloodhunter that allowed them to use that skill the same way Wilderness Lore/Survival presently interacts with the Track feat.
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Originally posted by -geeman@ Fri, 6 Sep 2002 12:16:58 -0700 The following skill description would replace any bloodline detection spells and abilities. It would be a class skill for wizards and sorcerers, cross-class for everyone else. Note: The version of Skill Emphasis I use makes the skill emphasized a class skill for that character no matter what class s/he levels up in, so by using a feat any character could gain access to this skill as a class skill.
Why not just a Detect Bloodline feat (or something with a better name) that gives you access to the stuff below through Sense Motive and Bluff?
<!–QuoteBegin–geeman[/i]@ w/some minor adjustments by me
[b]Detect Bloodline (Wis; Blooded Only)
You use this skill to learn information about the bloodline of another character, or mask your own bloodline from detection. Rank Benefits: If you have four or fewer ranks of Detect Bloodline you learn only that the subject has a bloodline on a successful skill check. At 5 ranks a successful Detect Bloodline skill check will reveal the bloodline strength (tainted, minor, major, great, true) of the target. At 10 ranks you learn the derivation of the target. At 15 ranks you learn the exact bloodline strength score of the character. Rank benefits are cumulative, so if you have 15 ranks of Detect Bloodline you learn the bloodline strength, derivation and bloodline strength score of your target. Check: Use the following list of DCs to make a Detect Bloodline skill check:[ul][li]Target’s bloodline is[list][*]True: DC 25[/li][li]Great: DC 20[/li][li]Major: DC 15[/li][li]Minor: DC 10[/li][li]Tainted: DC 5[/li][/ul][li]Physically touching target: +5 circumstance bonus[/li][li]Each 10’ distance to target: DC +5[/li][li]Nondetection spell: DC increased by caster level[/li][li]Unreadable thoughts: DC +10[/li][li]Target has Detect Bloodline skills: DC increased by target’s skill ranks[/li][/list]A Detect Bloodline check is a full round activity. You may not take 20 on a Detect Bloodline check. Retry: Yes, but you can make a Detect Bloodline check on the same target only once per day. After 24 hours (or after the time of day when you regain your spells) you may try again. Special: If you have the Character Reading blood ability you gain +5 on Detect Bloodline skill checks. If you can take the Blood Scent feat you use your skill at Detect Bloodline to track a blooded character.
Some notes:
I made the key ability wisdom because it seemed appropriate and because Scry is already intelligence. Wisdom is also NOT one of the main attributes for sorcerers or wizards, so using wisdom helps promote rounded characters.
Any other things that should provide modifiers for the DC?
I use rank benefits to determine the effectiveness of the skill check rather than the roll itself because of the way I set up the DCs. I use a lot of rank benefits amongst my changes to the skill system, so this fits into my other changes. It may not play very well using the straight skill system. YMMV.
I haven’t written up the Blood Scent feat yet, but I think it’s pretty self-explanatory. Blood Scent is to Detect Bloodline what Track is to Wilderness Lore. I don’t think I’ll even change the DCs.
Right now I’m thinking this is a skill that should only be available to scions (along with a few other “blooded skills” I’m considering) but I’m not yet convinced that should be the case. I mean, why not a commoner with such a skill?
[/b][/quote]I think the whole mechanic is okay, but I was thinking more along the lines of detect magic for the bloodhunter’s Detect Bloodline ability. I could use the stuff above for fleshing out the bloodhunter’s Bloodsense ability, though.
[i]Originally posted by Beruin+Nov 4 2003, 06:11 PM–></span><table border=‘0’ align=‘center’ width=‘95%’ cellpadding=‘3’ cellspacing=‘1’><tr><td>QUOTE (Beruin @ Nov 4 2003, 06:11 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id=‘QUOTE’>Hello everyone. This is my first post for quite some time, but I`m still following the list with interest. Generally, I like the pretext of your class,
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Thank you.
[i]Originally posted by Beruin±->
QUOTE (Beruin)
but I see one problem: It seems that the Swordhawk created this organization for his own benefit. Yet you write:
[quote]Originally posted by -the Falcon some bloodhunters have moved away from Massenmarch and found different employment. Where in Massenmarch their sole purpose is to increase the Swordhawks power, abroad they find their assignments much more varied. Appreciated for their unequalled ability to track down the blooded, their work can involve anything from safely retrieving a wandering heir to rescuing a kidnapped noble. Above all, they are valued for their unswerving loyalty to their employer; be it the Swordhawk or a noble king, a bloodhunter never questions her order and always carries them out faithfully. [/b] How would the Swordhawk react if one of his most valued servants left the ranks to find employment elsewhere? I dont think he would be amused and the would-be freelancer would probably earn his wrath and the enmity of his former comrades. This makes the class somewhat restricted to NPCs and the region of Massenmarch, unless you have a player willing to risk regular assasination attempts by other bloodhunters or other agents of the Swordhawk. [/quote]Well, it was originally intended for the Swordhawk’s bloodhunter organization only, really, but then, in the spirit of 3e, I thought it would be nice if it was a bit more flexible. Yes, I see the problem. Any suggestions to solve it?
[i]Originally posted by geeman+Nov 6 2003, 08:03 PM–></span><table border=‘0’ align=‘center’ width=‘95%’ cellpadding=‘3’ cellspacing=‘1’><tr><td>QUOTE (geeman @ Nov 6 2003, 08:03 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id=‘QUOTE’>Its something of a standard in 3e to extend the use of existing skills rather than come up with new ones, so most folks would probably prefer to handle it that way. Personally, Im loathe to extend the use of existing skills to cover new tasks, particularly into such a broad area as bloodline. Id rather tweak the skill list than tweak an individual skill. In this case, I dont really get a Sense Motive or Bluff kind of vibe off of the ability to track a blooded character, or discern information about his/er bloodline, so an entirely different skill (or a class ability that functioned like one) is my preference. Besides, there were a couple of other skills that I wrote up having to do with bloodline that I rather liked, so I`d keep it a skill as part of an overall D20 version of things…
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Well, maybe I’ll just stick to what I had originally for Bloodsense, which was just a class level + Cha modifier check.
