Realms: scores

[Sir_Tiamat]

@irdeggman

This is starting to make more sense to me. Although I think that the total number times the level of the holdings in question is a more realistic method.

5 level 1 holdings are not worth more than a single level 5 holding. Much more can be done with a single level 5 holding than can be done with 5 level 1 ones. The size of the holding determines the level of realm spell that can be cast and the type and number of troops that can be mustered, as well as the economic generation of the holding.

I agree that this would be more realistic, but would this not imply a large costs in playability for a rather small gain in realism? A level 5 holding will continue to be more effective (localy) than 5 level 1 holdings, but do we also need to represent this in the scores?

I think that the “difficulty” here is that you are pushing for a domain level score and then trying to use that for domain level actions.

true

While nice for “color”, in practice I don’t think this will prove very useful.

Most actions are not performed at the domain level but rather at the province or specific holding level.

in the current systems (Ad&D & 3.x) most actions are performed at the province level using only province resources. The question is do they need to be.

While keeping scores at the province level exponentially increases the difficulty (e.g., booking) of your system it is actually essential to game play.

Is it really? The level of Book keeping is a major issue in Birthright, perhaps even the biggest issue with the setting. Though fun for some, most of us tend to struggle finding fellow players that do not get tired of the birthright book keeping really fast.
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For instance what is the true contribution the loyalty, mobilization and size of a law holding 3 provinces away has when one is defending an attack a law holding in a different location?

This is offcourse little. I think one might make a case that these scores represent the average of the domain and are then modifieed at the province level providing a + to defences.

I think if you focus on individual provinces first, then a system to roll them up to represent the domain will be much easier.
which IMO would probably mean extensive book keeping.

BR is by it’s very nature a book keeping nightmare and I don’t really see a way that easily eliminates that aspect fo the game. The best we can hope for is a system that can be arranged to make automatic calculations easier (e.g., something that lends itself to spreadsheets or something similar).

I myself am not convinced that BR needs to be a book keeping nightmare if we are willing to sacrifice some realism. I see birthright still as an uncut or roughly gem, with major playability issues. Let us cut this gem that it may shine!

[Sir_Tiamat]

@AndrewTall

Tying in the trade-off, you could have some of the benefits of larger populous holdings have a negative impact on source holdings, rather than all changes being purely additive. That way as people power up their domain they have to trade off. So if someone wants to increase income with a grand highway, series of water wheels, terraces, or whatever else you use to represent increased output, they get an advantage (higher output and stats) at the cost of impairing the magic level. This shifts the trade-off from population to industrialisation but that doesn’t sound too wrong.

Interesting point, I think we should explore this.

[irdeggman]

@Sir_Tiamat

in the current systems (Ad&D & 3.x) most actions are performed at the province level using only province resources. The question is do they need to be.

IMO yes they do.

For one it is “cheaper” both in GB and RP to perform a smaller action than a larger one. What I mean is that to focus on a single holding than on an entire domain. If it becomes just as easy to do whole domain level actions then that is what everyone will do and IMO it “cheapens” the game a lot.

For another by making domain level actions this reduces the ability to expand one’s domain. Now instead of targetting a single holding you are going against an entire domain.

Also by accounting at the province level things like various degrees of loyalty can be better represented. Effects of troop occupation, great captain random events snd things like that all have much easier manner of being represented and handled.

Is it really? The level of Book keeping is a major issue in Birthright, perhaps even the biggest issue with the setting. Though fun for some, most of us tend to struggle finding fellow players that do not get tired of the birthright book keeping really fast.

Which is why making simplier spreadsheets makes it easier.

Since the AD&D version of BR computers have come a very long way so that almost everyone has one and spreadsheets and databases are extremely common place.

So very many people play similar PC games where they have to keep track of their “resources” also that I don’t think this is as big a deal as it once was.

This is offcourse little. I think one might make a case that these scores represent the average of the domain and are then modifieed at the province level providing a + to defences.
which IMO would probably mean extensive book keeping.

But this does seem to be a better representative of what is going on in the game.